CNN data guru Harry Enten broke down the latest polling in the Democratic Party on views toward Israel and the Palestinians on Wednesday and marveled at the massive shift in attitudes, declaring he’s “rarely” seen anything like it in his many years of looking at polling data.
Enten spoke to anchor Kate Bolduan in the context of Zohran Mamdani’s sweeping victory over ex-Gov. Andrew Cuomo in New York City’s Democratic Party mayoral primary last week.
“What are we talking about here? All right, who do Democrats sympathize more with: Israelis or Palestinians? In 2017, the Democratic Party was a pro-Israeli party. Look at this. They sympathized with the Israelis by 13 points—more with the Israelis than the Palestinians. But look at this sea change. Now, Democrats sympathize more with the Palestinians by 43 points.Oh my God! That is a change in the margin of 56 points over the course of just eight years. So all of a sudden, it’s the pro-Palestinian position that actually reigns supreme in Democratic politics, not the Israeli position. And that is part of the reason why Mamdani was able to do so well in this primary, because those attacks over Israel, simply put, did not ring true for Democrats”
What I think is most unbelievable is that the Israelis actually think people are buying their BS excuses. They really need to take lessons from Trump who apparently can make millions believe the most ridiculous lies.
Israelis don’t really care as long as people keep voting for the two parties which are in their pocket.
Honestly, I’m not even sure it’s just the funding. Israel has the Mossad, famously one of the most effective and ruthless intelligence agencies on the planet. Is it really hard to imagine they simply have damning blackmail material on many of the political leaders of both parties? The carrot is the AIPAC money. The stick is the Mossad and its tools. Hell, for a particularly troublesome lawmaker, would they even be above resorting to assassination? Look at how many innocent people they’re willing to kill to get one Hamas or Iranian military leader. If they thought killing a US House member of Senator was necessary to keep US support, do you really think they would be above that? I certainly don’t. And I don’t think they would be above subtly pointing that out to US lawmakers.
The Israelis are masters at assassinating foreign leaders. They mostly apply that to their enemies, but if they’re convinced a US lawmaker is their enemy, there’s no reason to suspect they would be above killing US leaders as well. I honestly believe that many US leaders support Israel in part out of a genuine fear for their physical safety. The killing of a US leader would likely be done quietly, rather than a bomb dropped on someone’s house. But I have zero doubt that Israel makes credible death threats against US leaders.
It’s a combination. They fund people who work with them and get them trips to Epstein Island. They destroy people who oppose them.
I hate that you’re correct
Isn’t that what Netanyahu has being doing all along?
So all of a sudden
Maybe something happened that caused the shift? Hmm, what could it be?
Don’t say it or you’re an anti-semite. Shocking that opposing the murdering and starving of people is antisemitic.
Now that trump is implementing centrists’ only policy for them, they have to pretend to dislike it.
3 months back .world would have banned you for even suggesting genocide is bad.
The fuck are you on about, mate?
This community and others on .world downvoted and banned people because they didn’t support the Gaza genocide and didn’t like that both major parties supported it.
If you don’t believe me, you’re ignorant of this place.
I was here. You’re making shit up for the purpose of… shitting on a Lemmy instance? Get a life, dude.
Oh yes I’m making it up, just don’t check modlogs or the communities about reporting moderation on it. That’s too much to ask for.
This is a misrepresentation of what happened. We downvoted you for making bad election choices.
I voted for harris, and absolutely no centrist has ever cared. They don’t want to hear that their beloved genocide is wrong. There is nothing more to it and there never has been.
Seems oversimplified, but also, why are you talking to “centrists”?
I’ve been banned from three communities for precisely that. One of them even tried to get the admins to ban me sitewide for it.
Was right on the tip of my tongue, but can’t quite come up with it. Something about a gen or side? Something like that I think.
genside? generation? genetics? idk
I was kind of on Iseral’s side in the beginning. 1200 dead for no reason?
Then I found out Iseral started murdering peaceful prostestors before Hamas came over. Fuck Iseral and their bullshit.
Even Hamas tried peaceful protests in 2017 and Israel murdered them.
Are you talking about the Great March of Return? They repeatedly tried to breach the border fence under cover of the protests. Of course Israel can’t allow that.
No about the handicapped people in wheelchairs and medics which the IDF sniped.
Their reports have obvious holes, once you try and look into it.
I’m with you on this one. What could they do but hvae their snipers target the elderly, children, and disabled? And they were being humane too! They were aiming specifically for the knees so rhat they wouldn’t be killed, but just completely disabled for the rest of their lives. Honestly confused as to why Israeli leadership wasn’t nominated for a Nobel peace price for that one.
Most of those killed and injured were fighters and members of militant organizations who were attacking the fence or supporting attacks on the fence by burning tires for thick smoke.
Some innocents were hurt, yes. The IDF is far from perfect.
That’s verifiably nonsense. I don’t know how you feel about holocaust deniers, but that’s what you are to me right now. And to many others. There’s no room in society for you, as far as I’m concerned.
Verifiable? You can look at Al Qassam’s own website to see their martyrs listed that died at the March of Return. Here’s an easy to understand video which goes into the sources for you.
I’ve looked at these, and here’s a blog post carefully going over the points made, meticulously refuting them one by one.
electronicintifada
The name marks this website already as a propaganda rag.
doctors
Doctors only know they receive shot children as patients. They don’t know under what circumstances they got shot and who shot them.
It was a false flag, obvious from the first tape of the assault at the party
Israel has a long and fucked up history. They’re like a little ADHD fucker in the playground with the huge older brother and a father as the head school administrator. No one dare punch the little fucker in the face.
Whenever someone claims they are “gods people”, you’re going to have a bad time.
Israelis have been downpressing the Palestinians for as long as there have been Israelis and Palestinians
What’s that bullshit about Mamdani facing criticism about not being outspoken enough against antisemitism?
They’ll go on and on about antisemitism (which often is just criticism of a nation-state, so not actually antisemitism), but then it’s deafening silence when it comes to racism against black people. Systemic discrimination against people of color is still alive and well in the U.S. But when have you heard this administration talk about it.
Same spin on all people calling for an end of war since Netanyahu decided that being against the genocide was antisemitic.
Same shit when any individual with an even remote arabian origin needs time and again to formally condemn islamist terrorist attacks, otherwise they’re instantly labeled terrorist supporters or some shit.
So be prepared to read a lot about “ambiguous position” on antisemitism because no matter what he says or does, they need to slap that label on him.
I wonder how these people would feel when they find out “islamist terrotists” attack muslims more than any other group also.
People finally realized the entrenched “democrats” aren’t good people. They are poloticians just like the Republicans. We need a new party.
They are not “just like Republicans”. Yes, they’re corrupt, and it’s important to realize that. But like, holy shit man one party is literal fascists, and the other isn’t. That said, need labor party
Yes, they’re corrupt, and it’s important to realize that.
They’re also, you know, actively genocidal.
Do you like one genocide or 2 genocide? Because with Republicans you get 2. And israel genocide is not changing no matter who America elects
Non-sequitor
Completely sequitoral. It’s actively relevant to the statement that they’re genocidal
Nope, it’s just whataboutism
It is not. There is a binary choice, and comparing the 2 is not what aboutism when it’s a choice between them
Poloticians = corrupt eventually.
Thank you for posting this.
The people are rousing and that at least is consoling in the midst of this ongoing genocide by the state of Israel.
Committing genocide tends to turn the public against you.
And somehow that comment is antisemitic. Because the Nazis are Jewish now. I just want people to stop killing other people!
I just want people to stop killing other people!
hey, that’s antisemitic! think of all the profits weapons companies could make, you’re hurting them. what about their freedom?
A tale as old as time. The abused grow up to become the abusers.
plus funding and censoring protests in colleges where most of the public/voting is does that too.
I hate you whoever came up with saying points instead of percentage.
It’s because describing a 56 percentage point increase as 56 percent increase implies a totally different result. A 56 percentage point increase on 10% is 66%. A 56 percent increase on 10% is 15.6%.
Holy shit
As usual: https://xkcd.com/985/
I assume it was adopted from sports betting, which I don’t understand.
People can fathom +56 points but +56% and their brains turn to goo. Just like most people need a calculator or special app to figure out tip.
they’re the same thing
Yes that’s the point :3
But they’re not. And someone explained how they’re not an hour before you made this reply.
They are not the same thing. Like, at all.
I mean, there wasn’t an incredibly well documented, active genocide happening 8 years ago.
That has a lot of sway on public opinion.
It was an open air prison poised for a genocide then. I’m glad people are realizing that the Israeli is as evil as anything and they shield it with a blanket of “antisemitism” to shut everyone up. That old chestnut no longer is working.
It’s been ongoing and documented for decades.
The Israel’s were always very cruel to the Palestinians but you’d never know it due to the lack of media coverage
I became aware in the last 2-3 years of the nineties, but I was always drawn to places that discussed these things.
Counterpoint: Iraq and Afghanistan
nonsensical whataboutism, find me contemporary sources calling either of those wars genocides or face my wrath
Did you drop an /s ?
There was, in Palestine. In 2014, Israel murdered like 1,400 Palestinians. This is nowhere near new for Israel, it is SOP for 70 years. The difference is that social media platforms gave us a direct view that corporate media actively chooses to not show us, as you pointed to.
Reporting almost 60,000 killed in this current war. That’s over 40x as many. Not downplaying the 1,400 but let’s not pretend this isn’t a great escalation compared to the atrocities of the past
And likely much higher than that
I would say that the most telling thing is that there hasn’t been a similar shift among Republicsns.
Anyone who can look at what Israel has done and is doing to the Palestinians in Gaza, and increasingly in the West Bank, without being filled with horror, revulsion and pity is a monster.
Republicans are shitty people full stop.
Fox News simply isn’t covering the genocide. There’s your explanation.
Also look at what percentage of voters switched parties.
What a point even mean in this context? Why not giving percentage of who sympatisze with palestinians
percentage points. So additive math, compared to regular percents, which are multiplicative.
+14 pts israel means 57% in favor of israel vs 43% in favor of palestine (assuming you can’t give other answers) That’s the same thing as 33% more people in favor of israel.
+57 pts palestine means 78.5% in favor of palestine and 21.5% in favor of israel. That’s the same thing as 265% more people in favor of palestine.
A ‘point’ is 1 person in 100. When they say that people sympathized with Israel ‘by 13 points’, they mean that 44% of people favored Palestine and 56% favored Israel. Why not just say “13 percent” then? Because 56/44 = 127%. 27% more people sympathize with Israel when their net support is 13 points.
When the margin is 43 points, it means 29-71 (minus undecideds). 71/29 = 245%, and I guarantee you will break people’s brains if you tell them that 145% more people sympathize with Palestine than Israel.
Yeah, democrats while flawed, are disproportionately comprised of compassionate human beings, who can recognize the difference between self defense and murder. That’s why Orange McFayg has been trying to demonize them and their ‘beliefs’.
It’s literally an attack on anyone who may show compassion, or inner reflection, remorse… You know human traits
Removed by mod
McFayg?
Israel is the world’s largest and oldest concentration camp for Jews. The citizens are mostly trapped there. Someone like Netanyahu isn’t living your average life of an Israeli citizen, either. It’s not zero sum. They are all being enslaved and they are all in extreme danger, Palestine much more so and much more urgently as of right now, but the Israeli people are also in danger as well
The survey, conducted in March and published by Haaretz newspaper on Thursday, found that 82 percent of Israeli Jews support the forced expulsion of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip.
Meanwhile, 47 percent of Israeli Jews answered yes to the question: “Do you support the claim that the [Israeli army] in conquering an enemy city, should act in a manner similar to the way the Israelites did when they conquered Jericho under the leadership of Joshua, ie to kill all its inhabitants?” The reference is to the biblical account of the conquest of Jericho.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/majority-israelis-support-expulsion-palestinians-gaza-poll
Yeah, they live in a giant fascist concentration camp… it’s like interviewing North Koreans. They can get hurt, beat up
Why do people move there, then? They have a democracy. I think it’s more like living in the US where we elect our fascists. You don’t see South Koreans clamoring to support NK nor immigrating there.
Plenty of Israelis do not support the war and want a quick resolution. Then there are the fascists and fanatics that have been displacing Palestinians and settling territory for years prior. Complex for sure, but a concentration camp it is not.
Because they flew them there for eugenicist decades long experiments. Ghilisaine Maxwell’s dad is a notable example, i can give you a link about him doing that (flying Eastern European teens to Israel). The anti-Jewish hate was so severe they paid for Jews to be flown out of Europe and other countries to be basically imprisoned there. Many Jews now cannot escape. They are gaslighted about it and told it is a holy place they should visit and live at, but a lot of them know the truth and refuse to set foot in the place and call it evil.
And it’s a great place for psychopathic wealthy poeple who can move there to buy the people stuck in the city.
There’s substantial evidence Trump wasnt elected the 2nd time.
North Korea is a slave state of China and the slavery there looks different than the slavery in Israel. There’s no concerted effort to get every Korean quarantined into North Korea, is there? There’s no genocidal drive to harm Koreans afaik, maybe some Japanese or Chinese tensions in that direction but no actual movement.
Just like the slavery in Dubai look different to both of these, which the Philippines has extensively publicly talked about due to their women being victims of trafficking in Dubai. Dubai and Israel (and Las Vegas and any desert city) are similar in that they have no where to run to that isnt death/the desert. Like if they flee the city by foot, they can die of exposure. The desert acts better than prison walls. That’s part of why the homeless tell you to never be homeless in Vegas bc you will never be able to escape. Islands can be similar to this as well, and ships and fishing likewise have slavery on them which uses the water to trap people in. Some people have been enslaved on 1 tiny fishing boat for decades.
I do think the US is a large work camp too though, yeah, but it is also where refugees have historically fled to from all over the world. I think people like Putin are mad about people escaping their grip and that’s part of why America is widely hated by world leaders - we allowed rebellion against their tyranny without much consequence. That would be why China set up their own secret police stations here.
https://www.nli.org.il/he/images/ nnl_archive_al990040300950205171/NLI#$FL45875197
I can’t really decipher your sources. Your claims about Israel are huge, and without evidence. There is a well documented history (and present) of Israel, but your version isn’t it.
People can leave Israel. I know plenty who have. A desert might’ve worked as a fence before vehicles were invented, especially flying ones.
These points are all either baseless conspiracy or extreme exaggeration, perhaps to make a point, but that’s not immediately clear to me.
What do you mean? Hitler himself supported it. Many Nazis and antisemetic people worldwide pushed for its creation for that purpose.
Not everyone can leave Israel, no. That’s a bold claim. And they often can’t leave by foot or boat without being in danger. There is slavery and poverty in Israel.
Vehicles are affected by heat. Headgaskets etc. Airspace is tightly controlled ofc, obviously.
It’s simply a PoV you’ve never considered. No need to externalize your stress while trying to learn it.
The existence of a lower class without much social, or even physical mobility does not establish that “most” are trapped. They’re no more trapped in a “work camp” than a poor American. I agree that modern capitalism is wage slavery and things are bleak for many. The poor and vulnerable are always the ones who suffer most.
e: Human trafficking happens everywhere, too. Just because some are exploited horribly doesn’t mean that applies to most in Israel.
It also doesn’t follow that Jews are trapped in Israel just because eugenicists and antisemites supported its creation or Jewish exodus. That’s unsurprising. Zionists exist too and staunchly believe in their right and duty to live there. Many Jews and other religious travel there freely, albeit, more freely before the latest escalations in violence.
I think Palestinians are more trapped than anyone else. I consider this a lot, but without making unsourced claims or exaggerated rhetoric
Yeah, boy, wair for it: there’re also a million less palestinians to sympathise with than there were 8 years ago. I think something is going on down there. Something very anti-semitic.
a million less palestinians
Citation needed
It’s only deep blue states, won’t impact the country by much. Not to say rest of country are evil, they just care about their own interests and enjoy Fox News.
That is evil when you are the only country that can stop this.
…when you’re the country that is actually financing this. Take away US assistance, Israel would be a poverty stricken backwater.
Without US supplying arms the Israel will turn to another country and take their valuable intelligence gathering in the region with them. Most likely Russia or China.
