I drive a hybrid, it’s identical to the previous car except it uses 60% less fuel.
$2000-3000+ a year savings.
Americans need to pay more attention to what is going on in Iran. Trump is draining US reserves to keep prices low, and there has never been a supply crisis this bad in history. We are months away from gas line ups and flag systems, like the 70s fuel crisis, except this crisis is far worse. The shit hits the fan after the mid-terms, by design.
Hybrids should be the default for gasoline vehicles. There may be some specialized cases where hybrids don’t make sense, but if you look at vehicles that have hybrid and non-hybrid options the hybrid typically sees a fuel consumption reduction of 20-30%. The cost increase is not so much and quickly pays for itself.
It’s also an easy way to add AWD if you only need a light-duty AWD system.
You’re reducing your consumption by roughly 20-30%. Given that this reduction comes at a low cost and retains the ubiquitous fast refueling of gas cars, it’s an excellent choice for many people.
Toyota hybrids are reliable compared to other ICE vehicles. But EVs are even more reliable. Also you still have to do ICE maintenance on hybrids like oil changes.
I agree hybrids still have their place, but i think many more people can switch to full EVs instead of going hybrid. they are just wary of change.
The entire strait of Hormuz mess only affects like 20% of the worlds oil and look at the effect it has. Imagine the opposite happening with mass adoption of hybrids (and continued growth in EVs)
Yeah I feel like hybrids are a terrible solution from an ownership perspective. You still have to get gas and do maintenance on a gas engine and all that comes with it. All so you can maybe road trip with a little less range anxiety once a year?
I feel like they’re a great solution …. For the aughts (00’s) and tens (10’s), but we should be past them. They had their time (even if few bought them then) and it’s time to phase them out for EVs. Sure, some vehicles and some locations aren’t yet suited for EVs so they should stay a little longer on the hybrids they should already be using, but most vehicles and place need to be turning to EVs
I really think emotions and politics got in the way of the better technology back then, and now as well. Now is not the time to be ramping up the technology of last decade
But there’s a lot more to a car for me. I need it to be affordable. I need replacement parts to also be affordable, and I need it to be user serviceable.
This is why my 20 year old Honda, and my wife’s 13 year old Lexus are both ideal.
Mine is a Honda, which means parts are everywhere, even in the deep deep south. It’s easy to repair basically any issue with it. I have no car note, and liability insurance is $32 a month for it.
Hers is a Lexus, which is for all intents, a Toyota. Which also means parts are ubiquitous. I swapped a water pump in it over a weekend. And I had never done that before. Sure, I’ve always done basic maintenance, but until about 3 years ago, I didn’t trust myself to do anything more in depth.
When my previous car (also a Honda) had a head gasket failure, I swapped it. Took me several months because I was learning as I went. But I did it.
Why? I had no choice. Couldn’t afford another car, and couldn’t afford the 2 to 4 hour labor rates a $20 gasket needed. What would’ve cost 500 to 600 bucks if I’d had someone else do it, wound up costing me less than $150. Had the head machined at a local machine shop, and that less than 150 bucks included that cost.
As I’ve heard my entire life, “po folks gots po ways”
You need to look at the total cost of ownership. EVs often cost less than comparable ICE vehicles because of savings in fuel, maintenance, and repairs.
Plug-in hybrids fail because of people. They could cover most or all of a typical commute on battery, but there was that recent study saying people don’t use them that way. If you’re going to treat it like an ICE car, it’s just an ICE car with more weight, that costs more.
the problem with PHEVs is the battery is very small, which is a longevity concern. Batteries lose charge capacity based on how many charging cycles they go through. So if you are discharging most of the battery on a daily commute you’re going to kill that battery’s capacity within a few years (like a cell phone).
A great use for the new sodium batteries, assuming they pan out as expected and can scale up quickly. While I still think the PHEV strategy is most appropriate for last decade before batteries were sufficiently developed, a cheaper, longer lasting battery can make them more compelling
There are trade-offs to both extra batteries or an ICE engine to drive a PHEV.
There is no one-size-fits-all, so people will have to evaluate which solution they prefer on a case by case basis. EVs are often (but not always) the better solution, and the market agrees with this on both number of models available and number or units sold.
That’s good, until you need to take a longer trip. At which point you can either have the extra batteries or a gas engine. There are arguments for either solution.
What is your view on hybrids?
I drive a hybrid, it’s identical to the previous car except it uses 60% less fuel. $2000-3000+ a year savings.
Americans need to pay more attention to what is going on in Iran. Trump is draining US reserves to keep prices low, and there has never been a supply crisis this bad in history. We are months away from gas line ups and flag systems, like the 70s fuel crisis, except this crisis is far worse. The shit hits the fan after the mid-terms, by design.
Hybrids should be the default for gasoline vehicles. There may be some specialized cases where hybrids don’t make sense, but if you look at vehicles that have hybrid and non-hybrid options the hybrid typically sees a fuel consumption reduction of 20-30%. The cost increase is not so much and quickly pays for itself.
It’s also an easy way to add AWD if you only need a light-duty AWD system.
Pay for two mobility solutions when you only need one… and, as a negative bonus, you’re still reliant on paying for oil and gas.
Hybrids are consistently among the most reliable vehicles you can buy.
They add some components, but they also take away some troublesome parts: https://www.torquenews.com/1083/its-whats-missing-matters-why-toyota-hybrids-are-so-much-more-reliable-other-brands-vehicles
You’re reducing your consumption by roughly 20-30%. Given that this reduction comes at a low cost and retains the ubiquitous fast refueling of gas cars, it’s an excellent choice for many people.
Toyota hybrids are reliable compared to other ICE vehicles. But EVs are even more reliable. Also you still have to do ICE maintenance on hybrids like oil changes.
I agree hybrids still have their place, but i think many more people can switch to full EVs instead of going hybrid. they are just wary of change.
It still comes down a lot to brand, as demonstrated by Toyota being more reliable than Tesla: https://autoreliabilityindex.com/compare/tesla-vs-toyota
Realistically, both technologies are mature enough that either technology can be very reliable if the manufacturer puts in the work.
ICE and hybrids do have more maintenance, but it is still infrequent on modern vehicles.
The entire strait of Hormuz mess only affects like 20% of the worlds oil and look at the effect it has. Imagine the opposite happening with mass adoption of hybrids (and continued growth in EVs)
Yeah I feel like hybrids are a terrible solution from an ownership perspective. You still have to get gas and do maintenance on a gas engine and all that comes with it. All so you can maybe road trip with a little less range anxiety once a year?
I feel like they’re a great solution …. For the aughts (00’s) and tens (10’s), but we should be past them. They had their time (even if few bought them then) and it’s time to phase them out for EVs. Sure, some vehicles and some locations aren’t yet suited for EVs so they should stay a little longer on the hybrids they should already be using, but most vehicles and place need to be turning to EVs
I really think emotions and politics got in the way of the better technology back then, and now as well. Now is not the time to be ramping up the technology of last decade
Hey, that’s not fair. You also get to drag around the extra weight from having both power sources, which lowers efficiency!
I like the idea of a plug in hybrid.
But there’s a lot more to a car for me. I need it to be affordable. I need replacement parts to also be affordable, and I need it to be user serviceable.
This is why my 20 year old Honda, and my wife’s 13 year old Lexus are both ideal.
Mine is a Honda, which means parts are everywhere, even in the deep deep south. It’s easy to repair basically any issue with it. I have no car note, and liability insurance is $32 a month for it.
Hers is a Lexus, which is for all intents, a Toyota. Which also means parts are ubiquitous. I swapped a water pump in it over a weekend. And I had never done that before. Sure, I’ve always done basic maintenance, but until about 3 years ago, I didn’t trust myself to do anything more in depth.
When my previous car (also a Honda) had a head gasket failure, I swapped it. Took me several months because I was learning as I went. But I did it.
Why? I had no choice. Couldn’t afford another car, and couldn’t afford the 2 to 4 hour labor rates a $20 gasket needed. What would’ve cost 500 to 600 bucks if I’d had someone else do it, wound up costing me less than $150. Had the head machined at a local machine shop, and that less than 150 bucks included that cost.
As I’ve heard my entire life, “po folks gots po ways”
You need to look at the total cost of ownership. EVs often cost less than comparable ICE vehicles because of savings in fuel, maintenance, and repairs.
TCO doesn’t mean squat when you can’t afford to buy the car.
I paid 3k cash for my car.
The two examples of repair you used can’t happen on an EV. Of course any EV can be maintained DIY.
Not OP, but conventional hybrids are alright. Plug-In hybrids are kind of a waste, and really only see benefits in very niche situations.
Plug-in hybrids fail because of people. They could cover most or all of a typical commute on battery, but there was that recent study saying people don’t use them that way. If you’re going to treat it like an ICE car, it’s just an ICE car with more weight, that costs more.
the problem with PHEVs is the battery is very small, which is a longevity concern. Batteries lose charge capacity based on how many charging cycles they go through. So if you are discharging most of the battery on a daily commute you’re going to kill that battery’s capacity within a few years (like a cell phone).
A great use for the new sodium batteries, assuming they pan out as expected and can scale up quickly. While I still think the PHEV strategy is most appropriate for last decade before batteries were sufficiently developed, a cheaper, longer lasting battery can make them more compelling
The situation where you commute 25 miles or less, where national average is 16 miles.
Just get an EV then. Why lug around a gas motor that you don’t need?
For those times where you do need to go 1000mi without wasting time at a charge station for hours
Use a conventional hybrid for that, and you won’t need to lug around a lot of extra battery.
In contrast to an extra 250 miles worth of batteries that you don’t need?
yes, extra battery capacity does not require extra maintenance or fossil fuel like an ICE engine does.
There are trade-offs to both extra batteries or an ICE engine to drive a PHEV.
There is no one-size-fits-all, so people will have to evaluate which solution they prefer on a case by case basis. EVs are often (but not always) the better solution, and the market agrees with this on both number of models available and number or units sold.
You can get a shorter range EV if that fits your needs. Gas engine just adds weight and complexity.
That’s good, until you need to take a longer trip. At which point you can either have the extra batteries or a gas engine. There are arguments for either solution.
In that case, it’s better to just run a conventional hybrid if you frequently need to take long trips.
Unless you can do most of your day-to-day tasks within the electric range of the PHEV, only needing gas for the infrequent long trips