TLDR: rationalists are basically a cult that worships AI and have some practices that lead to abuse and sometimes suicide. Zizzians are an even more extremist branch of rationalists and their members killed a few people in recent years.
Totally understandable because it’s a weird corner of the internet so the rundown is as follows:
“rationalists” are a subculture which while not really a cult it has a ton of cult-like tendencies. They’re a group that likes to discuss AI (predating the LLM boom of recent years) and the possibility of humans creating a singularity - an all powerful ai that will effectively solve all our problems and run the earth in the most “net positive” and rational way. There is a good amount on the rationalist cult on the internet and it’s a fun but kinda sad rabbit hole to research (it involves a ton of smart people falling for some rather weird logical fallacies as well as a fan-fiction of Harry Potter they effectively treat as a holy text). Anyway…
There are a lot beliefs rationalist discussions tend towards but generally it’s an agreement that the singularity is the most beneficial thing that could happen to humans and anyone trying to help the human race should work towards a singularity level AI with all their resources… this leads to more dark ideas such like pondering if it’s a “net positive” for some people to commit suicide as they do not contribute to society enough to justify the resources they take up. Pretty harmful and has lead to multiple suicides in their circles which they sort of just shrug off.
This sort of environment is conducive to people who take advantage of their status. There have been plenty of allegations around the rationalist community leaders abusing younger women (they have an organization whose name escapes my memory atm).
Now “zizzians” are a more radicalized group of people who broke out of the rationalist movement and started their own cult. They have wild beliefs like “to succeed in saving the planet one has to make themselves into a sociopath to not be burdened by sociatal expectations”. Through a bizarre chain of events zizzian cult members ended up killing multiple people around the end of 2018 including a border patrol agent on the border of Vermont. There is relatively little about zizzians out there as it’s a small group within an already small subculture.
There is a fantastic 4 part episode about the zizzians on the behind the bastards podcast. It’s a wild ride and I highly recommend it.
Yes, it was weird learning it’s connected to a cult while reading it.
Now that I’m thinking about it, I remeber hearing that there’s a another HP fanfic that’s connected to a cult, anybody know the name? I might be tweaking tho
There definitely is and I can’t remember for the life of me what it is. But that other one wasn’t a rewrite of the first book but like an 1800 page full on fanfic. You’re definitely not trippin on this one
ah i see, so it’s basically roko’s basilisk all over again. i see, yeah.
my only critique to these people would be “then, what?”; like, assume AGI has been achieved. Then what do these people do? Killing themselves? They can do that IMHO, but i’m not gonna do that.
There is a ton more to critique of these people. It’s a trap for high intelligence but low mental health individuals that effectively looks to abuse and extract value out of them. Really nothing positive the “rationalists” add to society
TLDR: rationalists are basically a cult that worships AI and have some practices that lead to abuse and sometimes suicide. Zizzians are an even more extremist branch of rationalists and their members killed a few people in recent years.
Totally understandable because it’s a weird corner of the internet so the rundown is as follows:
“rationalists” are a subculture which while not really a cult it has a ton of cult-like tendencies. They’re a group that likes to discuss AI (predating the LLM boom of recent years) and the possibility of humans creating a singularity - an all powerful ai that will effectively solve all our problems and run the earth in the most “net positive” and rational way. There is a good amount on the rationalist cult on the internet and it’s a fun but kinda sad rabbit hole to research (it involves a ton of smart people falling for some rather weird logical fallacies as well as a fan-fiction of Harry Potter they effectively treat as a holy text). Anyway…
There are a lot beliefs rationalist discussions tend towards but generally it’s an agreement that the singularity is the most beneficial thing that could happen to humans and anyone trying to help the human race should work towards a singularity level AI with all their resources… this leads to more dark ideas such like pondering if it’s a “net positive” for some people to commit suicide as they do not contribute to society enough to justify the resources they take up. Pretty harmful and has lead to multiple suicides in their circles which they sort of just shrug off.
This sort of environment is conducive to people who take advantage of their status. There have been plenty of allegations around the rationalist community leaders abusing younger women (they have an organization whose name escapes my memory atm).
Now “zizzians” are a more radicalized group of people who broke out of the rationalist movement and started their own cult. They have wild beliefs like “to succeed in saving the planet one has to make themselves into a sociopath to not be burdened by sociatal expectations”. Through a bizarre chain of events zizzian cult members ended up killing multiple people around the end of 2018 including a border patrol agent on the border of Vermont. There is relatively little about zizzians out there as it’s a small group within an already small subculture.
There is a fantastic 4 part episode about the zizzians on the behind the bastards podcast. It’s a wild ride and I highly recommend it.
Is the Harry Potter fanfic that “methods of rationality” one?
Yes, it was weird learning it’s connected to a cult while reading it.
Now that I’m thinking about it, I remeber hearing that there’s a another HP fanfic that’s connected to a cult, anybody know the name? I might be tweaking tho
There definitely is and I can’t remember for the life of me what it is. But that other one wasn’t a rewrite of the first book but like an 1800 page full on fanfic. You’re definitely not trippin on this one
ah i see, so it’s basically roko’s basilisk all over again. i see, yeah.
my only critique to these people would be “then, what?”; like, assume AGI has been achieved. Then what do these people do? Killing themselves? They can do that IMHO, but i’m not gonna do that.
There is a ton more to critique of these people. It’s a trap for high intelligence but low mental health individuals that effectively looks to abuse and extract value out of them. Really nothing positive the “rationalists” add to society