As good as that video is, he ignores the strength elections have as damage control. Yes, large positive change needs the sort of efforts he’s describing, but ignoring voting means a bad government will have far more opportunity to undo progress.
Really, the biggest takeaway from that video is that there are more tools than simply voting and protesting, which I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with.
I don’t think you got the main point of the video. Not only “large” change needs these efforts. Any progressive change does. As soon as there is no pressure by mass movements, politicians will drift to strengthen their power, which means moving to the right.
So the only way to keep and maintain a progressive government is to teleport from where we are now to the desired outcome? Is that the argument of the video?
I’m quite clear: electoral politics is merely a distraction for left/progressive forces. Rather, you should organize with your fellow exploited siblings and built opposing power structures from the bottom up.
He demands the opposite than wishful thinking, or “teleporting”.
Is there a succinct way of articulating why we can’t do both? (e.g. vote for the lesser evil while also doing all the mutual aid and whatnot that we can?) Does it boil down to the argument that voting makes people less likely to build said alternative power structures?
I’ll watch the video when I have time, but communicating an actionable strategy I think is essential to folks in crisis.
Ok, this could just be me getting lost in the comment chain. To be clear you don’t think voting for the lesser evil is harmful, but you also don’t think it is a valid strategy. If that is true, I see no inconstancies in your arguments.
When a non-evil person reaches the conclusion that a government is unavoidably committing genocide, there next thought is “how can we bring about the end of this government?”, not “how can I maintain the good times for me personally?”. But Democrats are callous psychopaths.
A. Please tell me exactly where I said Biden was anything more than a mildly less shit alternative to Trump. And please tell me where I was saying support the genocide, rather than support one of the people who supports the genocide.
B. I have not been talking about what Biden should have done. I have only been talking about what voters should have done.
I have only been talking about what voters should have done.
This election should have taught you that you can’t control voters beyond giving them a reason to vote for you. Not being the other guy is not a good enough reason.
Third parties are electable when they can do this better than the two major parties, and people stop buying into the propaganda you are spreading. They are legitimized when you vote for them. They are a threat to the major parties that can only be realized if you vote for them.
Except, not you, because you’re not an American voter, so why are you here again?
As good as that video is, he ignores the strength elections have as damage control. Yes, large positive change needs the sort of efforts he’s describing, but ignoring voting means a bad government will have far more opportunity to undo progress.
Really, the biggest takeaway from that video is that there are more tools than simply voting and protesting, which I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with.
I don’t think you got the main point of the video. Not only “large” change needs these efforts. Any progressive change does. As soon as there is no pressure by mass movements, politicians will drift to strengthen their power, which means moving to the right.
So the only way to keep and maintain a progressive government is to teleport from where we are now to the desired outcome? Is that the argument of the video?
If so, that seems not currently feasible.
Maybe you should watch it, then you don’t have to ask such an ignorant question.
Sounds like you aren’t clear on what that video is suggesting either. Why should I spend time to watch a video that no one seems to have understood?
I’m quite clear: electoral politics is merely a distraction for left/progressive forces. Rather, you should organize with your fellow exploited siblings and built opposing power structures from the bottom up.
He demands the opposite than wishful thinking, or “teleporting”.
Is there a succinct way of articulating why we can’t do both? (e.g. vote for the lesser evil while also doing all the mutual aid and whatnot that we can?) Does it boil down to the argument that voting makes people less likely to build said alternative power structures?
I’ll watch the video when I have time, but communicating an actionable strategy I think is essential to folks in crisis.
You can, if you want to. Just don’t waste your time on electoral politics.
Yes. Organizing is an actionable strategy.
Horses and water and drinking and whatnot
Ok, so why not vote for the lesser evil then? It would increase the amount of time we have to organize without fascists cracking down on us.
The fascists have already been cracking down on people trying to organize.
So your solution is defeatism?
A bold strategy, let’s see how it pays off. /s
Yes! Why not vote for the lesser evil to prevent harsher crackdowns than you would otherwise get?
I’m not arguing against voting. I’m claiming that it’s not a valid strategy. You can partake, if you really want to.
Ok, this could just be me getting lost in the comment chain. To be clear you don’t think voting for the lesser evil is harmful, but you also don’t think it is a valid strategy. If that is true, I see no inconstancies in your arguments.
Was supporting genocide “damage control?”
Supporting the lesser evil is damage control. Yes, Harris is far from great, but Trump is far worse.
Here’s the question I asked.
That’s the question I answered.
Which would you rather support?
Pick one or give an alternative and a good reason that it will have some effect.
The lesser evil in this situation is genocide without all the other shit, and supporting that is therefore damage control
When a non-evil person reaches the conclusion that a government is unavoidably committing genocide, there next thought is “how can we bring about the end of this government?”, not “how can I maintain the good times for me personally?”. But Democrats are callous psychopaths.
Also, it’s already fascism you ghoul.
Sorry, I thought I made it clear. What Biden did when he supported genocide for you is not “damage control” even though you love him for it.
A. Please tell me exactly where I said Biden was anything more than a mildly less shit alternative to Trump. And please tell me where I was saying support the genocide, rather than support one of the people who supports the genocide.
B. I have not been talking about what Biden should have done. I have only been talking about what voters should have done.
Welp, you just saw that “damage control” has a limit. People will stay home if they see insufficient difference between the two pro-genocide parties.
This election should have taught you that you can’t control voters beyond giving them a reason to vote for you. Not being the other guy is not a good enough reason.
Third parties are electable when they can do this better than the two major parties, and people stop buying into the propaganda you are spreading. They are legitimized when you vote for them. They are a threat to the major parties that can only be realized if you vote for them.
Except, not you, because you’re not an American voter, so why are you here again?