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I am not convinced any significant number of people voted for Trump because they supported Palestine. Feels like a massive straw man meant to stoke divisions in the left.
No, they didn’t, but I think a lot of people didn’t vote for Harris who otherwise would have
Doesn’t matter. Sitting Democrats don’t care about the Palestinians. We all saw the delays and empty promises to do anything at all. And the Democrats really didn’t have much else of a platform to offer. That is why dem voters didn’t show up.
We all saw the delays and empty promises to do anything at all.
They straight-up lied about the 30-day deadline for humanitarian aid. I mean we knew it was a lie when it was announced, but at this point I feel like they are openly insulting everyone who gives a shit about Palestinians.
Good point, we should elect a fascist dictator and abolish democracy forever. Then the Democrats will HAVE to prepare a better platform for 2028!
Doesn’t matter. Dems have lost their way a while ago. Fascism would have just taken a bit longer.
Fascism taking longer is GOOD. It means more time for trans people to get out!
There is a difference between doing nothing and making it worse
agreed. sending weapons, running interference at the UN and at qatari peace negotiations, and not doing anything when aid workers, journalists, and american citizens are killed or abused by zionists is not “nothing”, its taking the zionist terrorists side and getting blood on our collective hands, as well as destroying any dignity the western alliance has, and soiling the word “democracy”. Its an absolutely monstrous pursuit thats far from neutral.
Sending unlimited weapons and spreading false Israeli propaganda is definitely making it worse.
Democrats surely aren’t “doing nothing”, American weapons provided by Democrats have killed tens of thousands of children in the past year.
None of them voted for Trump. You can look at the voting numbers. Trump’s numbers are pretty much in line with what he got in 2020. He didn’t gain votes she lost them. People stayed home.
Staying home this election was a vote for Trump. Hope they like it.
At a certain point Democrats are going to have to remember that they can’t just rely on the other side being worse. If you don’t sell yourself to your voters if you don’t give them a reason to vote for you then you’re going to keep losing. They act entitled to everyone’s votes. Entitlement is a big problem when it comes to Democrats. People didn’t respond to them saying it was Hillary’s turn. People didn’t seem to respond to them saying it was Harris’s turn. Democrats don’t seem to like democracy. They claim to, but when it comes time to participating democracy they’re not big fans.
At a certain point Democrats are going to have to remember that they can’t just rely on the other side being worse.
If this election didn’t wake them the fuck up, then nothing will. I’m not expecting anything to change though. It’s going to be the same every election because they refuse to make a meaningful change.
They do what their buyers tell them to, that is no reforms. They tell the same to the other party. Most companies “donate” to both parties. They don’t care who wins, they bought both.
Democrats don’t seem to like democracy. Voters don’t care about democracy. Republicans actually hate democracy.
Why do we follow democracy again? Let’s just give Trump endless terms, once and for all.
I think voters realize that this isn’t a “democracy” in any meaningful sense. What’s the point of even voting outside of a swing state? The whole system is a con created so slave masters can stay in power.
That’s a cynical take. Thinking the President is the only office worth voting for, is inaccurate. Imagine what Congress can do, if every voter was diligent. The president can do nothing but toe the line, in that case.
Outside of a swing state, you can still vote on local and down-ticket candidates who match your values. You can vote on state propositions, like funding for public transportation.
Civic participation is like getting your voice heard. The more voices we have, the less extreme the country will be.
Sitting on the sidelines watching the country tear itself apart is not really helping anyone, in my opinion.
Yeah, about that ship that you think hasn’t sailed yet…
There’s not going to be a next election for you, kitties.
I mean, it works with the Republican campaign, why didn’t work for the Democrats campaign? Literally, Trump spent most of his campaign demonizing the other side.
That’s what irks me about the “Harris lost because she ran a terrible campaign” argument. The reality is, Trump ran a far worse campaign. In the final months, the dude was up on stage saying stuff that made medical physicians think he was mentally declining. The guy wasn’t forming sentences, and he was talking about the size of some dudes dick.
We have all of these people trying to explain Harris’s failure without also recognizing the campaign that Trump ran. This is not a genuine way of analyzing the results of this election. The reality is Harris’s campaign had some blunders, but the Trump campaign had far more major blunders in comparison; but he still won. I would like to know how that happened…
You missed the Crux of what I said. You have to earn their votes. You have to give them what they want. That’s what Republican voters want. They want the hatred. Of course that won’t work on Democrats or leftists. If it did they’d be Republicans. What appears to be a blunder to one side is a victory to the other. If the Cheney’s had stood up there with Trump and praised him Republicans would have loved it, for the other side it made our skin crawl.
Drag has not confirmed this rumour, but has heard that Trump got less votes in solid states and more votes in swing states. Apparently it was a lower turnout election in all categories except for Trump voters in swing states.
we are simultaneously a small amd pathetic minority, but also able to swing a major election on a major country. just pick one already.
5 million is a small minority in a country of 300 million.
5 million votes means a lot when it’s a close election.
it wasnt close though.
Progressives are 8% of the voting population. So they are more like 27 million voters.
Even if Dems won Michigan, they still lost Georgia and Pennsylvania. 5 million votes is a lot, but where those votes come from matter in our system
Sounds like the Dems should have pandered better to them then. They had a billion dollars to find out what marginal vote block would give them the edge.
it’s almost like every vote matters.
*~only applies to swing states~
I mean, honestly, I don’t think people protesting Democrats because of the genocide were what caused Dems to lose. I honestly believe it was because the Dems refused to acknowledge that times are hard for non-billionaires. That being said, anyone who voted for trump thinking he’d be better is an absolute fool.
It may have been a factor in Michigan. Their are about 300 Arab and Muslim Americans in Michigan, an estimated 200K of which are registered to vote, and Uncommitted vote had about 100K votes in the primary, which is less than Trump’s margin of victory. There’s going to be a lot of nuance examining how the anti-Genocide voters might have affected the electoral map, and I’m not sure we’ll ever get a straight answer.
It doesn’t matter to people who share these memes, though. They don’t like looking at the numbers. In their head, they have an image of a young, entitled white kid with a Genocide Joe sign who just wouldn’t listen to reason. An analysis would probably show that person is more likely to be Arab or Muslim with close ties to the Palestinian community, and that knowledge would make them uncomfortable.
i don’t think leftists voted for trump though.
Dems refused to acknowledge that times are hard for non-billionaires.
Agreed. It’s why the number of people who just didn’t vote dwarfs the number of people who switched parties.
I don’t really buy that the “leftists sank kamala” narrative is accurate. There’s just two Americas and one is bigger than the other.
How do you explain the drop in the dem vote between 2020 and 2024 then?
Massive consumer price inflation, mostly
There weren’t enough third party votes to swing the election. Trump won the popular vote. Stop blaming leftist for the country moving right. It’s stupid.
Yeah Bud! Keep bravely patting yourself on the back for defending a losing campaign holding a losing position that is pro-genocide. Just keep punching left, I’m sure the fascists will call you one of the good ones
Punching “left” at Trump voters sounds fine to me.
Didn’t vote for trump and neither did almost anyone else who was talking about the genocide, but sure. Keep pretending
May as well have though
A vote for Trump is a vote for trumpnot voting is a vote for trumpA vote for Harris is a vote for trump 🤡
Ok then you’re sure confusing if you choose to defend not voting for harris
If you think about it, since not voting for Harris is a vote for trump, not voting for trump would be a vote for Harris. By voting for Harris you’re therefore casting one vote for Harris by merit of voting for her and a second vote for Harris by not voting for trump. Voting twice is illegal, so you’re going to have to go to jail.
Sure /s
Equating not voting for Harris with voting for Trump is ridiculous and propagandistic. It’s straight up gaslighting.
Guess we know what you did
Wasn’t that the point? They knew both sides would be pro Israel and sent a message that without more Palestinian support, the Dems wouldn’t just get their vote.
It worked, the Dems have been nothing but shocked and aghast at the outcome. Now the pro- Palestine base are hoping the Dems turn against Israel for the 2026 election to win back their vote.
…the Dems won’t, by the way. They might pay more lip service to it, but they’ll never be anti-Israel.
Ha ha ha ha! You think there’s still going to be a Palestine in 2028! Huckster McJesusBitch is going to help Bibi complete the genocide.
Dems aren’t shocked. Dem voters were repeating at every opportunity that things would be worse under Trump.
I think we’re just suspect of people who say they’re pro Palestine and then act to worsen their situation.
You showed the Dems tho!
Oh, I voted. For Trump. Im a general independent and vote based on my morals. The Dems were certainly shown this time around, I agree. :)
If Palestine was a breaking point and Trump better aligned with your morals, your moral compass is fucked.
I’m just gonna keep hammering this in for a while. 81 million Democrats voted in 2020, but only 71 million this year. Trump won by 3.5 million. But hey, at least all you righteous little angels aren’t “complicit in genocide”, right? Think about that while you polish your halos. YOU did this.
Democrats had 4 years to pass electoral reform and call in reinforcements to fight the republicans. They could have done away with FPTP voting in the states they controlled but instead sat on their hands. They didn’t do everything in their power to stop the Republicans. Democrats can no longer be trusted to go it alone.
Oh get off your high horse. Voters don’t owe the Dems allegiance. The Dems need to win voters. They blew a billion dollars on bullshit instead of representing their electoral constituency. If you want to blame some voters blame those that voted fascist.
They owe their country the duty to get down off their pedestals and show the fuck up.
One man one vote, but it better be for MY TEAM
Are you sure you believe in democracy that you defend with such righteousness?
With such a brilliant electoral strategy, it’s a complete mystery how you ended up losing the election.
Hopefully the non-conservative parties here in Canada will learn from your genius strategy and do nothing like it.
I’m just gonna keep hammering this in for a while
…Which only reinforces the story that centrists stand for nothing and cant be trusted to lead a party-- especially a “big tent” coalition.
How does 10 million people not showing up to vote reinforce the story that centrists stand for nothing? I wouldn’t call people centrist for not showing up on the excuse of “not being complicit in genocide”. I would call them single-issue fools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKBJoj4XyFc
I linked this higher in this thread, but I need everyone to watch Jon Stewart’s post-mortem on Harris’ campaign. Like y’all are blaming EVERYTHING on pro-Palestinians, while not even acknowledging the republican-lite ads and interviews the Democrats ran coinciding with a bunch of pro-corporate consultants that joined her campaign in September. Or the fact that a segment of the population doesn’t like Trump, but is also racist/sexist enough to not want a black woman as president either.
Lemmy thinks they’re smarter than the MAGA crowd, but fall for neoliberal corporate sponsored propaganda instead. First it was hispanic men, then it was Gen Z, now it’s Palestine supporters. Meanwhile 57% of white people as a demographic voted for Trump, and MSNBC nor Fox News has nothing to say about that.
What is your point though, are you saying Trump and Harris are equivalent?
Of course I’m not. And if you watched Jon Stewart’s segment I linked you would understand exactly why “Trump is worse so vote Harris” doesn’t work as a gotcha.
And I voted for her, too, before you bring that up as well.
Nailed it on the head.
People want a straw man to light ablaze and blame everything on.
And I voted for her, too, before you bring that up as well.
I’m getting big “do you support hamas???” foaming at the mouth energy from casualpenguin.
This was the second highest turnout in a hundred years. In the seven swing states turnout either met or exceeded 2020. This is not an interesting point.
It was a 12% drop in voting in probably the most crucial election in modern times. Sorry if it’s not an interesting enough meme.
It’s meaningless in a system that uses an electoral college.
Popular vote isn’t meaningless, just distorted. There’s a limit to how much you can lose by and still manage to get enough electoral votes.
What’s the limit?
Good question. It would be difficult to calculate. I would start by examining electoral districts to find the ones where voters from the popular majority party in a state have been concentrated by gerrymandered so they will heavily win those districts but lose in most others, enabling the minority party to win that state. Then determine how many votes the gerrymandered party would need to overcome this by winning some of those other districts. Then do this for the whole country and add up the total.
What does gerrymandering have to do with winning a state’s electoral college delegates outside of Maine and Nebraska? States award all their delegates to the winner of the states popular vote.
I think people on this site put way too much weight on the importance of Gaza for the american voter.
Identity politics is over. No one wants it. Latinos and blacks don’t even want it, as witnessed by the fact that they moved to Trump in record numbers
He’s sooooo close and yet missed it by a mile. How are our political commentators/class this inept? It’s. The. Economy. Stupid. Identity politics are an issue to those voter blocs - BUT IT IS NOT THE ONLY ISSUE VOTERS CARE ABOUT.
You can’t go up the pyramid towards (identity) actualization without having a firm base - of economic and physical safety. A Latino/black/gay/etc person trying to put food on their family’s table and struggling to make ends meet, is going to view your party as deeply unserious if the only thing you’re offering them is representation and token* allyship. Those things are important, but not the start and end of your platform when reaching out to those voters.
I disagree. I think identity politics is causing a lot of burnout. It might still be relevant but it can’t be the single topic for the Dems to rally around. Yes, it’s the economy. But to pretend the insane thought policing that occurs on the left isnt exhausting is a failure on our part I believe.
God, you liberals are disgusting scum. MLK was right about you, you are the greatest threat to justice.
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Libs would rather make fun of their genocide that they’re funding than resist it.
That’s literally why nobody votes for y’all creeps.
Imagine unironically making this meme. I envy the history students in 2138 who get to study this crap and scratch their heads
The History students of the Future will watch all those who sat by as complicit in the rise of an authoritarian racist President in the USA
Look at this genocide enthusiast. Nah, if the Democrats are going to support Israel unconditionally they deserve to lose. If saving the US means that the US will continue supporting Israel then better if the US is unsaved. I voted for Jill Stein and don’t regret it, but I still regret voting for genocide Joe in 2020.
How cute to think this is the first authoritarian racist president. You should check out the rest of USA history sometime.
Depend what they will write in history books…
I’m pretty sure the anti-genocide people were the ones violently confronting Nazis four years ago while the Democratic mainstream said that wasnt the right way to do things.
Probably lots of overlap with the people who blockaded and flooded airports and courts to stop the Muslim ban.
Probably closely related to the people who put their bodies on the line and blockaded ICE detention facilities.
I’d bet they were involved in organizing the BLM protests too.
Nah, man.
The real Antifa are the ones brunching and quietly judging while they sip their mimosas.
quietly?
Fair point.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
MLKJ, “Letter from Birmingham Jail”
You remind me of the MAGoos who only quote Martin’s line about judging people on the character and not the color of their skin. Using that letter ignores the fact that the letter was written before the Liberals passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
Harris lost and Trump is getting ready to nuke Gaza. Maybe it’s time for you to reassess your plans.
You mean the voting rights act that was gutted by the supreme court while liberals just watched?
Did they expand the supreme court? pass ethics legislation? add term limits? use the same dirty tactics the Republicans use? censure Synema and Manchin for being republicans?
They sure didn’t. But the Republicans sure made sure Liz Cheney knew she wasn’t welcome in the party anymore.
Seeing how this is the 2nd time in a decade that moderate liberals have lost an election due to their lack of widespread support, maybe it’s time to reconsider their appeal to the increasingly hypothetical “average” American and listen to the base.
I’m arguing that we should be working in and with working class communities to tangibly improve their material conditions and you’re comparing me to a MAGA?
That’s some weird dissonance.
The history is already set. The dems ran a mediocre campaign after the sitting president flubbed a debate and lied about his physical ailments. It was a campaign so out of touch with voters that they lost the entire government.
Those 20 million people who sat by were democrats. But sitting by while facism rises is kinda your thing, isn’t it? Too bad you can’t hand-wring your way into a better union, huh?
No, but I can get a better confederacy. Given that I come from the confederatio helvetica and not the united states, you know.
Also I’d like to know how you got to the conclusion that I, vocal and voting against fascism, am complicit in its rise?
Imagine not understanding first past the post elections and harm reduction.
The people of Palestine asked us to vote against Trump. But they’re not worth listening to. They’re not even real.
There is no harm reduction. Kamala didn’t support a cease fire, and she refused to stop the flow of weapons or support. The choices were killing kids fast, or killing them slowly. You don’t get to act self righteous, like there’s a more moral choice there.
Democrats are baby killers.
Why should we accept genocide as normal? I don’t get it? Is it because it is happening to Arabs?
At least now we know many Democratic voters are just as racist as Republican voters just tacit about it
I’m never voting Democrat again. You had 13 months to stop the genocide but you didn’t, allowing it to be passed on to Trump.
Trump says the quiet part out loud. But we have Biden recorded privately saying he’d kill Arab women and children all the way back in 1982. His unconditional support of the genocide proves he hasn’t changed since.
We didn’t vote for Harris because we knew you weren’t going to pushback on the genocide with her as president just like you didn’t when Biden was president. Now you’re blaming us for Trump despite that all Arab and Muslim American voters still won’t give Harris the 10 million votes she needs to win the popular vote let alone the electoral college.
Edit 1:
I voted for Jill Stein. Voting for Trump sends the wrong message since he too is pro-genocide.
Edit 2:
If you opposed the genocide you really had no option but to vote for Jill Stein and/or Claudia De la Cruz. Voting Democratic sends the message that the genocide doesn’t affect how you vote and you don’t care if it continues. Voting Republican sends a similar message since they are openly pro-genocide and actually take the Bible’s apocalyptic ending literally. Staying at home doesn’t work either, because if you can’t be bothered to voice your opposition to genocide then future candidates won’t bother to listen.
From the first month it was clear to me that the genocide will continue no matter who wins. It was clear neither party nor core base of voters care about it. If neither party nor base sees us as humans worthy of empathy, you can’t act entitled to our human-animal votes. We already knew Republicans saw us as animals with no regard to our lives. But to find out that all along the Democrats saw us at best indoor pets and are more than happy to send us to a farm upstate.
Edit 3:
And no, I am not afraid nor care what comes next. I can’t imagine anything worse than genocide and I am not in any way better than a Gazan. If they can lose their livelihoods and lives abruptly and unfairly, I don’t see why I should be spared. I’d rather take the chance no matter how small and vote for ending the genocide rather than to just save myself/group.
Libs would rather cry for months about how they completely botched an election than do anything to stop a genocide.
Rashida Tlaib won 62-38 in a district that Harris lost 43-32-15 R/D/G. The idea that Libs can’t win or that Libs won’t stop genocide is flatly false. They exist. But they’re also at the top of the AIPAC hit-list (Cori Bush and Jamal Bowmen were two other staunch anti-genocide candidates forced out during their primaries) so they have to fight for their lives in their own primaries rather than turning out the vote nationally for their candidates.
The dirty truth is that Dems can be gaslit and railroaded by a fascist white nationalist press as easily as any Republican. We saw a hard right tilt this election because we were flooded with hard right propaganda over the last two years.
Pinning the results of a tsunami of fascist media on individual voters is just blaming the victims. When your social media is owned and operated by apartheidists and gusanos why are you surprised to see voters adopt their views? Garbage In, Garbage Out.
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The real dirty truth is that Rashida Tlaib belongs to a 1500 year old delusional authoritarian cult of personality that spread across Arabia and the Mediterranean (Gaza included) by force of genocide, violence and cultural destruction, and that (not unlike evangelical Christians and orthodox Jews)
Lol, so we’re equating all Muslims as violent genocidal cultists, but only evangelical Christians and Orthodox Jews are problematic?
Muslims in America will always be loyal to their backwards, oppressive religion rather than to fundamental concepts like democracy, secular society, equality, and justice under the law.
And is that different to the vast majority of Christians and Jews? It’s not evangelicals that ended roe v wade, just a couple trad Catholics. It’s not the Orthodox Jews doing the genocide, just regular people.
There is no such thing as an anti-genocide Muslim, as the prophet Mohammad himself was nothing but a violent conqueror and killer of all who opposed his dogma
Lol, tell me you’ve never read the old testament without telling me you’ve never read the old testament.
Ask these hypocrites how it happened that Arab Muslims ended up living in Gaza in the first place…
“Arab muslims” is a modern cultural designation based on language and religion. Modern Palestinians hail from the same Semitic people as Jews, and have inhabited the levanth since the early bronze age. You are not only incredibly ill hearted, but also incredibly stupid.
so we’re equating all Muslims as violent genocidal cultists, but only evangelical Christians and Orthodox Jews are problematic?
Wrong. All religions are problematic cults of personally built entirely on mass hysteria and delusion by people who value faith over fact. All religious people are cultists, it’s just that we have been culturally groomed to accept some fictional beliefs over others.
Some religions are generally more compatible with secular society or other religious viewpoints (for example Buddhism), while Islam is unfortunately less accepting of secularism, which is fucking obvious to anyone who has ever looked at life in places like Iran and Afghanistan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_secularism
Lol, tell me you’ve never read the old testament without telling me you’ve never read the old testament.
The Old Testament, as well as the New Testament, are mythology, not historical fact. They are interesting and informative to history only to the same very rough degree as the Iliad and Odyssey.
The fact that so many people are still caught up on treating these folktales as if they are fact is a big part of the problem with the modern world.
“Arab muslims” is a modern cultural designation based on language and religion. Modern Palestinians hail from the same Semitic people as Jews, and have inhabited the levanth since the early bronze age. You are not only incredibly ill hearted, but also incredibly stupid.
False. Are you just going to make believe that the Islamic Caliphates didn’t take over the Middle East and large parts of the Mediterranean by force of violence? I supposed they conquered all of that land through love and peace? Is that what they teach at the madrasa?
At any rate, those people who lived in Gaza during the time of the Bronze Age Collapse were the Philistines, who were not of Arab ancestry, did not speak pre-classical Arabic, and had almost nothing in common with the modern cultural identity of Gaza, which became centered around Arabic and Islamic traditions during the time of the Rashidun Caliphate post the death of Muhammad. Culturally speaking, the inhabitants of Gaza during the bronze age had more in common with the Minoans than they did with today’s Palestinians, so you have no room to be calling people “stupid”.
And by the way, if you want to talk history, then let’s talk about the fact that there was never an independent nation of “Palestine” at any point in the last 2000+ years, as it has basically always been controlled and governed by some larger empire, from the Ottoman Empire, to the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, the Greeks under Alexander the Great, the Persians, the Egyptians, and so on.
“Israel” and “Palestine” as nations were created by the British and the League of Nations within years of each other during the last century, and while both people have historical ties to the land going back hundreds if not thousands of years, neither of them have any more right to their land than the Native Americans have to their historical lands.
I’m not sure when the so-called self-proclaimed “leftists” of the world became the grand protectors of religious bullshit of the Islamic variety, but it ain’t it.
Oh look. It’s every centrist’s inner monologue.
I guarantee I’m further left than you and Rashida Tlaib, it’s just that I believe in secularism and you clearly don’t.
Sorry buddy, but I’m not going to pretend (in the name of political correctness or whatever horseshit is in vogue these days) that Muslims, Christians, and Jews aren’t fucking cultists participating in mass delusion.
ITT: libs finally realize a genocide is going on and actually care about it now
HILARIOUS!
