im not discussing economics in this place anymore, it’s pretty clear you guys are always talking about capitalism as a way to say America, and communism to mean whatever random notion of socialism you dream up that definitely hasn’t been tried before
I always wonder why one emoji isn’t enough. It’s always spammed in multiples of 3 or 5, as if they’re cloning themselves. One gets the point across just fine.
I’m not even a communist. I just try not to dismiss people with an attitude like that.
As you said, sometimes it’s not worth engaging, but… you did, and were a jerk about it.
If you can’t acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, the poor and downtrodden banding together to advance their own interests might improve their lives, I dunno what to say. That it might not? That they’d just be stopped? That human nature will prevail and tear it all down?
Maybe. Might be worth trying. I know that’s a pipe dream, and so do you, but let people have their goddamned dreams. Maybe someday they’ll turn into something more.
I get the bitterness, communism has struggled. But it’s not the only “not capitalism” option either, a lot of people here are straight up anarchists. And that definitely hasn’t been given a fair chance, no nation can tolerate it!
anymore implies that i did at one point then stopped because of the aforementioned reasons
so you saying i don’t bring anything of substance to this particular discussion is self defeating, i already pointed out why before you pointlessly made your comment
Yeah have you seen how much the state sponsored agriculture, scientific research and medical research has helped poor people in the US? Not to mention the government food and shelter provided by the military. Imagine if it could be extended to everything!
What the fuck kind of data contains a GDP for the USSR in 2010?
E: Wait it’s you! Thank you again for your insights. I still need to consider the deflationary effects. But also, what the fuck is this data doing after the 90’s?
Because the successor states are not soviet? Does it also include China, Cuba, the DPRK, and Vietnam? Come to think of it, the units don’t make sense either.
Why would it contain them? The others you name are nominally still ruled by communist parties, and more importantly did not do the massive privatization the USSR did.
You see the same pattern in Yugoslavia, which also did the same privatization of previous state controlled industry . . .
The Soviet Union was not communist, so bad example. I agree with the premise though, I am just saying, that we should be more honest with our arguments.
Alright, then let me explain: There is no such thing as a communist state. Communism, as defined by Marx is a stateless classless society.
It was also not socialist, because the workers did not have any meaningful control over the state, which controlled the means of production. Ergo, the workers didn’t control the means of production and the Soviet Union can much better be described as state capitalism. It was also fascist.
Championing the Soviet Union as a “bull-work of communism” is also falling for American propaganda, because the US loves to portray the cold war as a struggle between capitalism and communism, which capitalism won.
To be truly empowered as leftist, we need to reject their false definitions and actually try to figure out the truth.
You don’t have to like the USSR, but fascism has a particular meaning - and the difference between even the Soviets and fascism was well defined by Mussolini, among others.
LOL
you certainly didn’t fall for American propaganda.
IDK what the people using the idiotic term ‘leftists’ to describe themselves mean by it, but they usually aren’t left.
I think you’re far from figuring out the truth.
There are plenty of ML’s who would gladly and thoroughly debunk your other claims with plenty sources and evidence (as I hope they do).
As it’s a good thing to educate people.
But I just pointed to the most staggeringly ridiculous one showing you’re pretty far gone.
You need a lot of work and studying.
Too early in the day and too hot, I have other work to do.
I disagree with many points of Bolshevik and particularly USSR communism.
That said, it was ruled by the Communist Party. So it’s a fine example - and claims that even the flawed state socialist system of the USSR wasn’t more beneficial to the average person is ignoring exactly the natural experiment that Russia was.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
If successful all but the wealthiest would be better off, would they not? Are you thinking of the “communism” that happened in the Soviet Union.like?
im not discussing economics in this place anymore, it’s pretty clear you guys are always talking about capitalism as a way to say America, and communism to mean whatever random notion of socialism you dream up that definitely hasn’t been tried before
Well you are in the clear as this
doesn’t count as fucking discussion anyway.
I always wonder why one emoji isn’t enough. It’s always spammed in multiples of 3 or 5, as if they’re cloning themselves. One gets the point across just fine.
🙆♂️
🤣 there is plenty of other communism is great circle jerks around here, I’m sure you’ll find one where everyone agrees with you shortly
I’m not even a communist. I just try not to dismiss people with an attitude like that.
As you said, sometimes it’s not worth engaging, but… you did, and were a jerk about it.
If you can’t acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, the poor and downtrodden banding together to advance their own interests might improve their lives, I dunno what to say. That it might not? That they’d just be stopped? That human nature will prevail and tear it all down?
Maybe. Might be worth trying. I know that’s a pipe dream, and so do you, but let people have their goddamned dreams. Maybe someday they’ll turn into something more.
👍
Then why bother commenting at all?
Because they like the smell of their own shit I bet
I get the bitterness, communism has struggled. But it’s not the only “not capitalism” option either, a lot of people here are straight up anarchists. And that definitely hasn’t been given a fair chance, no nation can tolerate it!
If both MLs and capitalists hate anarchists, they must be up to something good
you guys are easy to trigger
I live in Australia, I’m one of the wealthiest people in the world just by owning a house
My life is amazing
Communism sucks
You havent brought anything of substance to this discussion, so good riddance and dont let the door hit you on the way out.
english not your strong point?
anymore implies that i did at one point then stopped because of the aforementioned reasons
so you saying i don’t bring anything of substance to this particular discussion is self defeating, i already pointed out why before you pointlessly made your comment
Yeah have you seen how much the state sponsored agriculture, scientific research and medical research has helped poor people in the US? Not to mention the government food and shelter provided by the military. Imagine if it could be extended to everything!
Don’t worry Komrade, we mean real Communism not corrupt Oligarchy Russia.
Did you mean to reply to the guy above me?
https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/79130/communism-in-the-soviet-union-china-etc-wasnt-real-communism-is-that-tr
Yep real communism hasn’t been tried so your ideas are technically all hopes and dreams
And then people wonder why actual economists think communists are a joke
What the fuck kind of data contains a GDP for the USSR in 2010?
E: Wait it’s you! Thank you again for your insights. I still need to consider the deflationary effects. But also, what the fuck is this data doing after the 90’s?
Soviet block and its successor states obviously. Why would you interpret it any differently?
Because the successor states are not soviet? Does it also include China, Cuba, the DPRK, and Vietnam? Come to think of it, the units don’t make sense either.
Why would it contain them? The others you name are nominally still ruled by communist parties, and more importantly did not do the massive privatization the USSR did.
You see the same pattern in Yugoslavia, which also did the same privatization of previous state controlled industry . . .
The Soviet Union was not communist, so bad example. I agree with the premise though, I am just saying, that we should be more honest with our arguments.
(If you are wondering what I mean)
Yes, some american economist says so guys, checkmate.
Alright, then let me explain: There is no such thing as a communist state. Communism, as defined by Marx is a stateless classless society.
It was also not socialist, because the workers did not have any meaningful control over the state, which controlled the means of production. Ergo, the workers didn’t control the means of production and the Soviet Union can much better be described as state capitalism. It was also fascist.
Championing the Soviet Union as a “bull-work of communism” is also falling for American propaganda, because the US loves to portray the cold war as a struggle between capitalism and communism, which capitalism won.
To be truly empowered as leftist, we need to reject their false definitions and actually try to figure out the truth.
No, it wasn’t.
You don’t have to like the USSR, but fascism has a particular meaning - and the difference between even the Soviets and fascism was well defined by Mussolini, among others.
LOL
you certainly didn’t fall for American propaganda.
IDK what the people using the idiotic term ‘leftists’ to describe themselves mean by it, but they usually aren’t left.
I think you’re far from figuring out the truth.
You are not even gonna engage with the rest of the argument? I think that was the much more important part.
There are plenty of ML’s who would gladly and thoroughly debunk your other claims with plenty sources and evidence (as I hope they do).
As it’s a good thing to educate people.
But I just pointed to the most staggeringly ridiculous one showing you’re pretty far gone.
You need a lot of work and studying.
Too early in the day and too hot, I have other work to do.
Removed by mod
I disagree with many points of Bolshevik and particularly USSR communism.
That said, it was ruled by the Communist Party. So it’s a fine example - and claims that even the flawed state socialist system of the USSR wasn’t more beneficial to the average person is ignoring exactly the natural experiment that Russia was.
When did workers control the means of production in the USSR? When was the state abolished? When was money abolished? When was class abolished?
Communism never existed in the USSR it was run under state capitalism and the dictatorship of the proletariat never ended.
That’s nice.
Except the post is about the communist party, not communism - and which did run the USSR.