Obviously because they don’t understand that trips over 4 hours take an extra 10 minutes which will cause any real man to melt!
/every EV thread on the internet
My parents live next door to me. Between us we have three vehicles: My father’s new-ish sedan, an old sedan that was my grandmother’s and my pickup truck.
At this point I would gladly replace the old sedan with a Nissan Leaf or some other electric car, because it NEVER goes beyond 20 miles from the house, almost always on grocery runs. There are weeks it isn’t driven at all. Honestly we could do without it entirely, I drive it mostly to spare my truck the mileage.
This is against my father’s religion. Every single thing has been a FIGHT with him. “Let’s get the gas powered hedge trimmer.” “It’s heavier, we’d have to keep buying gas and oil for it, and it’ll only ever start and run three times maximum. We’d put it in the shed over winter, the carburetor will fill up with adamantium and it’ll never run again.” “Let’s get the gas one. The men with the knives told me they’d hurt my mom if I bought electric tools.” “You’re 65 years old and your mother is currently in an urn at Bethesda cemetery. Look, this one runs on the same batteries as our hand drills.”
“Let’s get the gas powered chainsaw.” “Let’s get the gas powered string trimmer.” “Let’s get a gas powered lawn mower.” Kicked, screamed, bitched, moaned, collapsed the USD twice, sheepishly admitted the electric ones work better and are easier to start, “LET’S GET A GAS LEAF BLOWER.” We own five rakes, dad. “DO WE NEED ANY MORE?”
He wouldn’t accept an electric car unless it charged from a solar panel on its roof from empty to full charge in a third of a femptosecond. The man who will go on long, angry rants about not wanting to ever go anywhere ever again because there’s only one toilet on the planet he can stand to shit in will say 'What if I want to drive to Honolulu?"
Every cunt-missing navel-fucking thing with that man. He’d have a gas powered hair dryer if they made one.
the carburetor will fill up with adamantium
Jesus, story of my life. I’ve got battery everything excepting my mulcher, which is dead with a snapped shaft. Do they make strong electric mulchers?
I have no experience with mulchers but if they can get my thickness planer to run on 15 amps they should be able to run a wood chipper on it.
I have an electric wood chipper, it’s…adequate. Its been a few years since I bought it, but at the time I bought it, my understanding was that you could not get an electric version that matches the power of gas powered units. For electric, you get to pick either a mulcher that will shred leaves and VERY small branches or a chipper that will slowly turn smallish (maybe 1-1.5") branches into chunks.
Overall, It works for my purpose. I would prefer to have a more powerful one, but I only use it a few times a year and would prefer to avoid dealing with the maintenance that goes with a gas unit (not to mention the horrible smell when using one).
Currently using a prius C. In theory I’d prefer to have an EV, but I just don’t have a consistent place to charge, and I already outright own my existing car.
Currently working on trying to reduce my use of my existing car. Because at the end of the day an ebike will always be better than any type of car.
I’m on both sides of this. Had an EV for nearly 4 years and had to go back to gas for work (construction, moving/having tools, materials and supplies).
I cannot wait for an affordable small ev pickup. Even a not that affordable one. I just can’t do $100k for an oversized monster like the Lightning. But give me a $60k Ranger/Frontier style (basically the smallest truck they make these days, without a full SUV on the front) and 500km range and I’m in.
I hate getting gas. I hate it so much.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m considering the hybrid ones from ford, but I’d be most happy with a full EV ranger
I can’t wait to replace our service vans with EV. Fuel costs are a killer, as is the downtime from servicing, not to mention the cost of brake pads and rotors which chew out semi regularly due to the weight we carry.
Unfortunately the only electric vans have terrible range when empty, and far worse when fully loaded. 250k is insufficient.
I’d probably settle for a hybrid, BYD Shark style. Something with a big enough battery for urban use, and a little petrol motor on board to give you range when you actually need it.
Once upon a time I knew someone with a small contracting business. Needed to move sheets of plywood and tools and whatnot around town. Anyway, fed up with one of the pick ups breaking down, he wound up at a used dealer to replace it. He ended up leaving with a wagon instead of a truck, and later on replaced the other trucks he had with wagons. Seems to be a win, it’s been about a decade now.
I got the Kia Soul EV for that reason. That poor little “SUV” had more 2*4 and assorted furniture and metal in it that probably 99% of other Souls ever do in their lives. The roof carpet was trashed, the side wall plastic was shaved and scraped, the back of the seats were ripped…
It’s true even my smaller truck does almost all I need and is overkill 30% of the time. But you have to be flexible.
I always enjoy hearing of people that use their vehicles as the tools they are. Cheers.
People always forget that when you leave home with an EV, you always have a full “tank”.
All you need is a house and a garage and room to keep your evs in there and an ev with a range big enough to handle all your travel needs or you’ll still gave to own a 2nd vehicle that uses gas and then if you want to keep your ev past 100k miles just be sure to keep an extra $20,000 lying around for when the battery needs replaced.
But yeah, you can always leave home with a full tank. Of course, filling it to 100% also degrades the batteries faster. But don’t worry. Your warranty will kick in once you lose about 1/3 of capacity. Sure ducks if your 300 mile range vehicle (when the weather is right) can only go 220 miles, but that isn’t quite bad enough for warranty coverage.
We’ve entered the fact-free zone again with the mental sloth.
Still haven’t answered why after 120yrs of internal combustion evolution, best they can do still gets less than 5% energy after drivetrain losses to moving your fat smelly ass:
What embarrassing efficiency from ICE vehicles, with hybrid vehicles being a low quality bandage.
I know a couple people that hung extension cables from second and third story apartment windows to plug in their Nissan Leafs or similar low end EVs.
Most people - city dwellers and even suburbanites - don’t need a garage, nor a house, nor an EV that can go hundreds of miles at the drop of a hat. Most trips people make are pretty short in comparison to the range of any modern vehicle, electric or combustion.
For country folk, the considerations are different to be sure. But anecdotally, one of those people that hung a cable out a window years ago now lives a couple hours outside the city and still drives an EV that gets less than 150 miles of range. The biggest alteration to someone’s lifestyle by getting a low range EV is the money saved by making pretty minor adjustments.
You seem salty and misinformed. Ever own an EV?
I own a hybrid. Between knowing batteries, electronics, evs and vehicles, I’m more informed and knowledgeable than most people on here. EVs are only great if you own a garaged house, want to take large losses on resale, and keep newer vehicles. A lot of people do fit in that category, but for everyone else they’re still a poor idea for now. They’re fine if you only keep vehicles under a warranty and trade them in. They aren’t a “thrifty” option.
Lmao no you aren’t. I do power electronics professionally, you have never demonstrated any understanding of electronics in our previous discussions.
Hybrids are the worst of both worlds - intensely limited electric range, performance worse than electric, fuel efficiency not much better than diesel alone, expensive to buy and maintain (you not only have to buy and maintain a full combustion engine but you also have to buy a battery). No wonder you think EVs are rubbish.
If you were “more knowledgeable than most people on here” then you wouldn’t be so wrong about everything you’re saying… Seems like maybe you’re just smug and also full of shit. Great combo!
Lol a self declared expert huh? Bows to your greatness
I never had a garage, I sold for 80% what I paid 3 years later, and I usually go with 4-5 year old, under 50k km private sale vehicles outside of the EV(because it’s a newer market). I was pretty giddy to buy my first new vehicle. Might have been my last, depending on my funds when an electric truck that meets my needs hits the market.
Thanks for sharing your opinion though. Takes all types.
Well I’ve been paid for working on all of the above, so I guess that makes me a self declared proffesional, sport.
Cool story bro! Tell me about how great gas stoves are next.
Why is a garage needed?
It isn’t. Dude’s an “expert”.
I had mine outside my house, and while it did suck to have to plug and unplug it in the cold Canadian winters, it took 10 seconds, not the 5 minutes stopping at a gas station takes. It was a great trade off to never have to stop at a gas station.
Few people want to get wired and lug/have out a heavy duty 30 amp extension cord running out into their driveway to plug in their car.
Beyond that, during the winter months, having a completely cold soaked ev battery when it’s like 10 degrees Fahrenheit outside MASSIVELY cuts down on your range, while having to leave your car outside 24/7 during the summer causes your battery to degrade faster, so you want it left parked in the shade.
EVs have fewer moving parts and require less maintenance than old fashioned ICE vehicles.
They also lose value much faster and repairs outside of warranty are much more expensive.
Plus again, you almost have to have a house and garage to keep one. Not to mention the cost of the charge station set up in your garage (usually around $1,200).
Then you also have how much quicker tires wear out. Replacing $800 tires every 30,000 miles is a lot more expensive than $600 tires every 50,000 miles.
I almost wrote out a point by point debunking of this non-sence but I feel like now I’m just attacking you and that’s not fair.
Anyone reading. Please do some research, this guy should have.
Go ahead. Point by point. I’m quite interested in seeing how you can deny the tire wear and the EV hookup costs. Well known and easily searched information like that must be “super” easy to argue against. Lol
Naw, you are the “Professional”, I’m on holidays.
You aren’t interested in any of that. When I say "My EV came with the charger and an electrician did it for $200, you’ll say “well that’s not usually how it goes! I know. I’m a paid Professional.”
I don’t need convincing, you don’t want convincing, anyone reading this can google and research about the tires (mine were still considered 80% by the dealership after 3 years and 40 something k)
So… whoops, kinda did go point by point. Guess when you actually owned an EV it’s not that complicated.
Happy Holidays!
I think ford forgot that Truck makers went big on chassis sizes is for the exemptions for fuel economy signed into law a decade ago.
They could have made a ford ranger EV that was normal truck size from the old days. They went against that because of mentality of current truck drivers. At the same time, the truck drivers who want EV trucks probably aren’t driving the 3 gpm monsters they sell today.
If you’re loud enough on social media, you might get your modest size EV truck in 3-5 years.
If someone made an ev kei truck that wasn’t shit, I’d be so happy.
I mean, I can’t get rid of my S10 because there’s no new truck on the market today sufficiently small enough to allow me to compensate for my enormous penis.
Ford made the much smaller Maverick truck starting in 2022. It was a hybrid, not an EV, but they definitely are looking into that market.
Elon Musk is doing everything possible to sabotage the world’s transition to EVs.
In his new position as president Musk is looking to end funding for EVs and pivot his company to hydrogen fuel because they realized they can’t maintain a fuel racket like with oil if they allow people to swap to EVs.
The real EV boom will be when China’s EV prices start to beat American EV prices despite the 100% tariff.
Currently China is the only country who seems to be actually pusbing EVs in a practical way.
Oh wow, moving from the tech that works to something Honda desperately tried and failed to make catch on. Good plan
I heard the Toyota has planned on bringing in the Stout small pickup as a hybrid. We might get one of those in a few years once our Tacoma is too expensive to fill up.
The day Toyota brings the Hilux Champ is the day I buy a truck
If you are in the states then you will have to wait until they remove the chicken tax or you will never get an imported small pickup truck and neither will I up in Canada as our market is too small without the USA having the models too.
I’ll keep my eyes out. My other half has a Tacoma and loves it. I don’t really but it’s still one of the smallest you can get these days and it has been reliable.
I just can’t do $100k for an oversized monster like the Lightning
Lightning is like $50k now. But yeah I get it. I just saw one of the 43574 Chinese brands made a small truck.
I’m in Canada, I do t think even a used bare bones Lightning is $50k CAD. I’ll take a look though because last time I checked prices was in the spring. But it’s still too big for my parking situation and a danger to pedestrians. I need a truck not an SUV with an exposed trunk.
I was an early adopter, and I went back to gas. My car only had like a 30 mile range though, which was cut in half during the winter. I’d consider that new Mustang SUV though, that looks like a bad-ass vehicle.
A 30 mile range? What did you buy, a Sinclair C5?
Chevy Volt. It had a gas generator that would kick in and charge the battery after the battery was drained. It was pretty gutless on generator power though, even though it had a lot of character on straight battery. The generator was nice for longer trips though. I drove it across the State and didn’t have to worry about charging it, since it could run on gas only for extended periods. It wasn’t considered a hybrid though, because the gas engine wasn’t connected to the powertrain at all. The gas engine was just a generator that charged the battery, which drove the electric motor.
My parents bought one of the mustangs. They are pretty conservative people who live in FL now. My pop says it is his second favorite car ever behind the 98 BMW 540i he had and they’ve owned a lot of cars. It’s wild to me that he loves this electric car so much.
By all accounts it’s a fantastic vehicle. Idk why they put the Mustang name on there, which earned it a lot of scorn, when it seems like it can stand well on its own. I know I dismissed it as stupid myself because of the name, until I learned more about it.
I was talking to someone I know well about this, she was in an EV and went back to petrol. Two factors, range anxiety and the EV was “soulless”
I do wonder at how the vibrating nature of a fossil car works into that. I know some people call e-autos “dildo cars”, which I guess would make fossil cars “vibrator cars”. It annoys me these days, like the car can’t just sit still like a normal thing, but I guess some people would like it.
Everyone i know who had actually owned an EV has realized that range anxiety is largely a myth.
Yep, if you buy one that’s realistic for your lifestyle a few weeks in something pops and you wonder why people were making such a big deal out of it.
That’s the same kind of thing people say about vinyl records vs CDs, digital video vs film, 48+ vs 24fps.
All I hear with that kind of complaint is: “It’s too good, I’m not used to it. I want what I’m used to, even if it’s worse.”Vinyl I find is a much more holistic experience than makes listening to music easier for my ADD.
It becomes a process where I can feel the record, read the liner notes, enjoy the album art, and since it’s not easy to just skip a track or change to a different artist I find I’ll actually listen to an entire album instead of just individual songs.
As for cars, I don’t like a lot of modern regulations forced into vehicles. I really like small, simple machines with analog controls that are intuitive to use. Modern cars in general have grown in size that make them less pleasurable to drive. They also are rife with touchscreens and so many systems are so interwoven with software that it becomes a pain in the ass to modify them.
I don’t want something that sings at me if I put a bag on the back seat but don’t fasten a seat belt. I don’t want something that alerts me that I’m speeding. I don’t want an infotainment screen that controls my AC which makes it hard to upgrade my stereo. I don’t want my car to have a cellular antenna. I don’t want “software updates” that change how my car runs. I don’t want an entire system locked behind DRM.
I want a car that looks good, not like current copy and pasted of each other’s makes. CR-V? Rav-4? Rogue? They all look like similar piles of plastic.
Cars are something I actively enjoy fixing and working on. They are a hobby and a love. Modern vehicles are turning into iPhones where everything is decided and controlled by the manufacturer.
You can also do all that album stuff with a CD album. That’s what we all did back in the 90s - 2000s. Plus the CDs are a lot more durable than LPs. I still buy music on CD as my first preference but most new music isn’t published that way anymore.
Those are great reasons to like vinyl records. They have nothing to do with audio quality.
As far as preferring simple cars, EVs can be just as simple as you want. Look at the Carice TC2. Which is quite cheep for a hand built car.
And all the things you don’t like, are in all the new ICE vehicles also. The power-train doesn’t matter to any of that.The sound is different. Or I should say, it is supposed to be. Because of the limitations on vinyl it needs to be mastered differently. Most modern releases don’t necessarily take this extra step in the production so vinyl may sound worse than a digital release.
And yea. It just mostly means that I typically buy 20 year old used vehicles and there aren’t EVs from back then. Though wrenching on an EV is different than on a ICE.
If they had an EV that met my criteria, I wouldn’t mind buying one. But I don’t think I’d replace my ICE cars for it. It would be in addition, though probably get driven more regularly than the ICE cars especially for taking the kid to school.
All that said, we both work from home and the most we drive is usually to school or a nearby shop. We’d get by with a 20 mile range car.
I keep the 01 MR2 Spyder because I love having a convertible and my 03 WRX which I’ve lifted and drives 95% of the time just when it snows and I need the AWD. It probably uses only a tank or two of gas for an entire year. Both of those are used so infrequently that I had to buy and keep them on battery tenders or the battery would be dead between when I take them out.
Our main car is my girlfriend’s hybrid accord. We fill the tank every other month, so cost of operating it is around $20 a month. I spend way, way more in insurance than anything else to drive so little. Because the cost to operate and maintain it is so low, it’s not worth the expense to buy a new EV and drop the cash on upgrading my electrical service, replacing my very old panel with pushmatic breakers, and installing a new circuit (or my goal being a sub panel) in the garage.
Except all the things you mention are about sensory fidelity and you can make an argument for either. The only “fact” involved in CDs vs vinyl is that the latter is less convenient. The audio warmth being more pleasant to someone’s ears is not something you can argue with, it just is for them.
That’s exactly my point.
People like the noise and feel of an engine, even if it’s objectively worse at doing the primary thing it’s supposed to do.All the things I mentioned have the exact same issue. They have more detail and more accurate reproduction. Which are objectively the point of their medium. But people want less detail and accuracy, because they “like it.”
Okay. My apologies. Rather than stating that as a fact, I thought you were judging it. My mistake.
I’m not judging people who prefer vinyl, and other objectively worse things.
I’m absolutely judging people for calling them better, in an attempt to justify why they like them.I was right then. as you were
Vinyl is actually higher fidelity than CDs though. That’s not subjective, it’s scientifically verifiable.
It’s not. The benefits are all hypothetical. In practical demonstrations, records have dramatically less dynamic range and more distortion. It’s not even a contest.
CDs have a digital sampling rate of 44.1 KHz. Vinyl is a continuous waveform as an analog medium, but if you were to digitize it, the equivalent sampling rate would be at 96 KHz or higher.
Yeah, but CDs don’t have static, aren’t affected by dust and there’s no hiss. In ideal conditions, vinyl is best, but I don’t live in a vacuum chamber.
Back in the day my parents had a high quality turntable and sound system from a very well respected manufacturer, and we had strict rules on how you look after vinyl. The first generation CD player blew it away for sound fidelity.
All you have to do is clean the record before playing it each time. It takes 20 seconds, and I enjoy the ritual.
Yes that’s the hypothesis.
But in practice the distortion eliminates reliable reproduction at those frequencies, which humans can’t hear anyway.
Typically I prefer my appliances soulless.
Not surprising that someone who calls a vehicle an “appliance” would say something like this.
For some people (myself included), driving is more than something you’re required to do to get from point A to point B. Driving is an experience, something meant to be enjoyed.
I love the feeling of the car communicating with the road through the tires, suspension, and steering, and throughout my body. I like to feel like the vehicle and I are a single entity, and not just something to be driven, something I’m fighting to control. Which is why I prefer small, sporty, nimble roadsters with firm, communicative suspension, and hydraulic rack and pinion steering. Not a giant boat of a crossover that handles like I’m floating on a cloud, with electric steering that vaguely goes in the direction I point the wheel.
I drive not just because I have to, but also because I enjoy doing it. Not having the right car is detrimental to my enjoyment. I need a car with soul. (Just not a Kia Soul.)
My humble family EV is the most fun to drive of any vehicle I’ve ever driven. The acceleration is bonkers and you can beat cars of any badge unless they’re electric too. It’s such a joy to drive. I used to hate my commute but now I love it.
You and I are on completely opposite sides when it comes to vehicles. Driving is what I do to get to the thing I actually want/need to do. It’s the price I pay to do the things I want when they can’t be done “here”. The only reason I don’t have someone drive for me is because I can’t afford that. The only reason I don’t have a computer do it for me is because we haven’t made one good enough to do it, and I hope it happens soon. If I could teleport to my destination and get back the years of my life spent in a car waiting to do something else, I would. If the odds of my turning into a fly were less than 50% over 50 years, I’d still strongly consider it. As for fighting to control my vehicle, that just sounds like a second job, and I don’t want to pay to have one of those.
I get that all those things sound like “soul” to you, but they all sound like “work” and “wasted time” to me.
I’m in your boat but I also care about the planet. I know that not doing everything for commuters today, will mean I will not be able to enjoy my mx5 na, 944 and similar in the future.
I think us petrolheads have a choice: make sure as much as possible is turned green or stop dreaming about true lightfooted joy on the road in the future. I’m thus very positive about electric cars because they are great for almost everyone and most fears are just not warranted. I want as many dinosaur burners as possible to be replaced as quickly as possible so 15 years down the road I can step in a Mercedes W123 or old Citroen DS and know where I am by the smell of it.
Just about everything I drive now is electric. The first gen Model S is okay in terms of communication, even though it weighs too much it is mechanical. It is too fast to be fun. The last gen BMW i3 is zippy and quite fun to drive but many assume they need 400km range on a daily basis and it’s not that. If budget doesn’t matter, I assume a first gen Tesla Roadster should effectively be fun if you retrofit the charger, it convinced many reporters in its day. The electric drivetrain really lends itself to feeling one with the machine.
We should have our voices heard. We want light communicative cars. But we should get as many as possible on the EV train if we want to enjoy our old toys in the future.
I’ve looked at a few EVs, and I do keep going “Well not yet” because of the goddamn interiors and controls. All of a sudden they don’t have to worry about mechanical linkages and they can’t fucking help themselves but make you shift it into drive by tonguing a clit on the ceiling.
I know your mommy didn’t let you go into art school, doesn’t mean you get to take your creativity out on me.
The soul of a petrol/diesel car, what’s that new strange noise, did I change the oil recently, is the cam belt about the explode, acceleration until you have to change gear, inconsistent acceleration, don’t cook the brakes going down hill, did I remember to sacrifice to the car gods with morning, how I wish my EV had a soul
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I hope my mother goes back because I’m tired of her having trouble reaching her destination every time she wants to visit our family… At the moment she’s considering leaving the car there for the rest of winter and coming back by bus because she doesn’t know if she’ll be able to make it! She barely managed to make it across the 250km no man’s land in the middle of the trip and the whole thing took her 8h instead of 4.5h like it usually would.
Sounds familiar. An european EV with a claimed range of 400km in the winter required a total of 3h30min charging time on a trip of 600km. Real range was about 350km, in the winter less than 300km (heating the cabin and having the thermal pump on full speed to prevent the windows from freezing). Battery did not receive charge with claimed charging speed although it was preheated.
It took 11 hours for EV to finish the trip that takes a bit less than 7 hours on a gas car, two families travelling the same trip with different cars, lunch and coffee break included. And return trip will take even longer due to charging the EV is not an option in the destination.
With bad luck it takes 13 hours on return if charging stations are occupied after christmas when everyone are traveling back after the holidays, you only need one charging station to be occupied.
Not my experience at all, my EV has an even smaller range and we just did 1300km across Europe to come visit the family for Christmas, yes it was a bit of extra break times with the low-ish range of my e208 (340km official, much much less real range on highway in winter). There’s so many chargers now you can definitely avoid full ones, apps show you if it’s full before you get there. But I never had it yet that it was completely full/had to wait. Charging time always super quick and by the time we walk to the shops, toilet break and get a coffee we’re good to go, sometimes we take more time than the car need when the little one needs to play. For the rest of the time there’s always chargers nearby and in every day driving I never feel range anxiety, I do wish I had an extra 30min highway time before charging which I think I’ll have in the summer. I think if you’d have one of the newer EVs with even faster charging and insane range I don’t see how you could struggle at all.
What make/model of EV?
This sounds like a highly unusual situation for someone with an EV. Given the circumstances I’d also be switching back or at least renting a car depending on the frequency of that trip. I’ve personally never had range anxiety but I understand it can still depend a lot on the specifics of your vehicle and where you live.
It’s either a lie or she has a leaf, which is not a long range EV. Every long range EV can do 250km in a charge, even in winter. No ev, not even the leaf, would require 4 extra hours of charging to do it.
Sounds like someone either exaggerating or making shit up whole cloth.
A 4.5 hour trip does not take 3.5 hours of charging. Any EV that I know of could do that with one stop each direction.
I don’t think it’s that unusual when you live in places where there’s actual winters…
She used to own a Leaf and would rent a gas car for the trip but in the end she would end up spending more than she saved on gas by owning an EV (renting a car gets expensive when driving long distances!)
Maybe this trip will be the one where she realizes she needs an EV with way more range (which she can’t afford because they’re fucking expensive)…
It’s too bad PHEV’s are so expensive. It sounds like they would otherwise be a good fit for a lot of people like your mother.
I’m a little surprised that towable generators as range extenders for EV’s that you could rent for a fraction of a car rental aren’t a thing. But I supposed EV makers wouldn’t be incentivised to make their vehicles compatible with an accessory like that because it would be perceived as them admitting their range is insufficient.
Sounds like poor planning to me. The range and how cold affects the batteries are public information
Guess what, when you have a window to go somewhere and get there on time, sometimes you don’t have a choice and you go when you need to no matter the conditions.
