Are they less deserving to be out of the elements because they have an addiction?
That’s not what’s being said. He is criticizing the fact that so many people assume that ‘just give them a place to live’ is the solution, when it’s much, much more complicated than that. In that way, “homeless” is very reductive, and masks those other issues, in favor of making it look like it’s a simple problem with a simple solution.
Very few long-term homeless people are homeless simply because they can’t afford a place to live.
So we shouldn’t house them unless and until we figure out all of the complex issues? They’re not going to benefit any at all, or have any possibility of getting on their feet, until we have a perfect solution?
That’s what’s being said there: homelessness is not something we should do anything about, because of reasons. So let’s do nothing.
So we shouldn’t house them unless and until we figure out all of the complex issues?
That’s what’s being said there: homelessness is not something we should do anything about
No, Cathy, that’s not what was said.
The fact of the matter is that we know what happens when we provide shelter without anything else. It doesn’t last and you’re right back where you started before you know it. After all, it’s that stuff that is the reason they became homeless in the first place.
If you don’t address the other stuff, ‘just give them a house lol’ literally doesn’t work long-term. That’s the reality.
The fact of the matter is that we know what happens when we provide shelter without anything else. It doesn’t last and you’re right back where you started before you know it. After all, it’s that stuff that is the reason they became homeless in the first place.
Houston revamped its entire system to get more people into housing quickly, and it cut homelessness by more than half.
Housing First was a revolutionary idea when it was introduced in the 1990s because it didn’t require homeless people to fix their problems before getting permanent housing. Instead, its premise — since confirmed by years of research — was that people are better able to address their individual problems when basic needs, such as food and a place to live, are met.
Housing is the first step to being able to address those issues. Yes, the issues need to be addressed for long term success, but trying to address the issues while they are homeless is not successful. Too much emphasis is put on requiring the treatment as conditional for the housing.
I think you’ve misunderstood my position, based specifically on something I’ll quote later in this comment.
Somewhat ironic that the juxtaposition in the article is between an area of California and Texas, with the latter arguably taking the more progressive approach.
Too much emphasis is put on requiring the treatment as conditional for the housing.
For the record, I never believed in or advocated for this approach. I pushed back against specifically the implication that you can just throw these people into some sort of housing and now you can consider the problem “solved” and wipe your hands of it.
I definitely agree that the path to a long-term solution is taking that multi-faceted approach that tackles those root causes simultaneously. None of them should be conditional upon the others, and I believe that each one of them improving empowers the individual to be more capable of improving all the others. It’s much more efficient than trying to 100% solve one thing, and ignoring everything else until that one thing is completely eradicated, not only on efficacy, but in resources required.
For the record, I never believed in or advocated for this approach. I pushed back against specifically the implication that you can just throw these people into some sort of housing and now you can consider the problem “solved” and wipe your hands of it.
Nobody ever said that. They have said that it should not be a requirement to provide housing.
I pushed back against specifically the implication that you can just throw these people into some sort of housing and now you can consider the problem “solved” and wipe your hands of it.
Nobody ever said that.
From the OP:
“It would cost $20 billion to end homelessness in America.”
This $20 billion figure comes from an old estimate of what it’d cost to pay for homeless people’s rent, and nothing more. And that person effectively said that paying for that, and nothing more, would “end homelessness.”
You did a pretty good impression of her with the “so you’re saying” followed by something not even close to what I was saying, so I called a spade a spade. If you don’t like it, try arguing in good faith and honestly instead of strawmanning.
So I’ll assume you’re also not arguing in good faith either
Calling out strawmanning is literally not a personal attack, it’s an attack on the dishonesty of the argument.
Comparing someone who is strawmanning to an actual person (read: not a generic pejorative like calling someone a “Karen”, for example) who literally became infamous for blatantly and shamelessly strawmanning during a public interview, is also not a personal attack, especially when the basis of the comparison is something they literally just did, not something I’ve accused them of without evidence or something.
If you were to provide housing only, nothing else, youd still pull out a significant portion of homeless people.
Of course, little to no one is advocating for housing only. These people often lack a solid support system and mental counseling.
Lastly, there will be a portion that cannot be fixed, that might remain broken but honestly? A lot of complete broken people have housing and the sole reason for them not being burned alive or bullied is that they have enough money to not sleep in the streets.
Homelessness encompasses far more than rough sleeping. I agree that there are issues that many homeless people may face that wouldn’t be resolved just by giving them a roof over their head. But it’d be a great start. And don’t forget, a lot of homelessness is people and families in temporary or crisis housing, or couch surfing with friends and family, because they can’t afford a place of their own.
I wouldn’t say this contradicts anything I said, really. I don’t disagree with any of this.
I bristled specifically at the ridiculously glib and reductive “solve homelessness” line. People love to think issues like these are things that have simple obvious solutions that no one thought of before their enlightenment came along and deigned to bless the rest of us.
I mean yeah, it’s a glib portrayal but I don’t think it’s wrong to present it this way. It’s a fact that a few of America’s most wealthy have enough money to house every homeless person in the US, with enough to spare to keep themselves in megayachts and luxury Texan compounds. It drives home the massive wealth inequality.
It also really isn’t infeasible to build enough homes to house all the homeless in the US within one or two years. It’s not infeasible to spend that same amount of time setting up universal basic income and healthcare. Those three things are achievable and would make a positive, life-long difference to the majority of people experiencing homelessness.
And there are a handful of people in the US whose combined personal wealth could easily fund all that.
It’s a fact that a few of America’s most wealthy have enough money to house every homeless person in the US
If they have enough to do that, then the government certainlyalready has enough to accomplish this, no? Even the wealthiest person on the planet’s total net worth is nothing compared to what is already spent every single year by the US government.
It also really isn’t infeasible to build enough homes to house all the homeless in the US within one or two years.
I thought it was commonly said that there were more empty houses in the country than there are homeless people, already?
It’s not infeasible to spend that same amount of time setting up universal basic income and healthcare.
If you’re talking about something that goes only to homeless people, then it’s not “universal”. If you’re now talking about true UBI, I just don’t see how it can be realistically afforded.
Back of the napkin math, a measly $10,000 to every working-age adult in the US amounts to an annual bill of over $2 trillion each year. We have no realistic way of paying for that–even if you squeezed all the billionaires completely dry, it’d only pay for it for a couple of years. And that’s just $10,000.
It just doesn’t seem feasible until/unless we are literally post-scarcity, from the raw numbers. And that’s assuming it doesn’t replace any of the welfare systems already in place–if it would, then it really wouldn’t lift anyone out of anything long-term.
And there are a handful of people in the US whose combined personal wealth could easily fund all that.
It’s honestly very difficult to believe this, knowing all the trillions upon trillions of dollars the government has already spent over the years on issues like these, without them being ‘solved’.
That’s not what’s being said. He is criticizing the fact that so many people assume that ‘just give them a place to live’ is the solution, when it’s much, much more complicated than that. In that way, “homeless” is very reductive, and masks those other issues, in favor of making it look like it’s a simple problem with a simple solution.
Very few long-term homeless people are homeless simply because they can’t afford a place to live.
So we shouldn’t house them unless and until we figure out all of the complex issues? They’re not going to benefit any at all, or have any possibility of getting on their feet, until we have a perfect solution?
That’s what’s being said there: homelessness is not something we should do anything about, because of reasons. So let’s do nothing.
That’s a fucking cop out.
No, Cathy, that’s not what was said.
The fact of the matter is that we know what happens when we provide shelter without anything else. It doesn’t last and you’re right back where you started before you know it. After all, it’s that stuff that is the reason they became homeless in the first place.
If you don’t address the other stuff, ‘just give them a house lol’ literally doesn’t work long-term. That’s the reality.
Actually it is pretty darn successful when enough housing is provided.
Housing is the first step to being able to address those issues. Yes, the issues need to be addressed for long term success, but trying to address the issues while they are homeless is not successful. Too much emphasis is put on requiring the treatment as conditional for the housing.
I think you’ve misunderstood my position, based specifically on something I’ll quote later in this comment.
Somewhat ironic that the juxtaposition in the article is between an area of California and Texas, with the latter arguably taking the more progressive approach.
For the record, I never believed in or advocated for this approach. I pushed back against specifically the implication that you can just throw these people into some sort of housing and now you can consider the problem “solved” and wipe your hands of it.
I definitely agree that the path to a long-term solution is taking that multi-faceted approach that tackles those root causes simultaneously. None of them should be conditional upon the others, and I believe that each one of them improving empowers the individual to be more capable of improving all the others. It’s much more efficient than trying to 100% solve one thing, and ignoring everything else until that one thing is completely eradicated, not only on efficacy, but in resources required.
Nobody ever said that. They have said that it should not be a requirement to provide housing.
From the OP:
“It would cost $20 billion to end homelessness in America.”
This $20 billion figure comes from an old estimate of what it’d cost to pay for homeless people’s rent, and nothing more. And that person effectively said that paying for that, and nothing more, would “end homelessness.”
So yes, somebody said that.
If they have a home are they still homeless?
Cathy?
I see that you’re not interested in actual discourse and instead are just looking to be petty.
So I’ll assume you’re also not arguing in good faith either, so I’ll just add some downvotes and move on.
You did a pretty good impression of her with the “so you’re saying” followed by something not even close to what I was saying, so I called a spade a spade. If you don’t like it, try arguing in good faith and honestly instead of strawmanning.
Projection.
Ah, the “NO U” gambit
One of us wrote an entire comment that contained nothing but a lie and personal attack, and it wasn’t me.
Edit: Facts make y’all real mad, lol.
You’re the one who is literally calling them names.
Calling out strawmanning is literally not a personal attack, it’s an attack on the dishonesty of the argument.
Comparing someone who is strawmanning to an actual person (read: not a generic pejorative like calling someone a “Karen”, for example) who literally became infamous for blatantly and shamelessly strawmanning during a public interview, is also not a personal attack, especially when the basis of the comparison is something they literally just did, not something I’ve accused them of without evidence or something.
Now that’s what I call projection!
If you were to provide housing only, nothing else, youd still pull out a significant portion of homeless people.
Of course, little to no one is advocating for housing only. These people often lack a solid support system and mental counseling.
Lastly, there will be a portion that cannot be fixed, that might remain broken but honestly? A lot of complete broken people have housing and the sole reason for them not being burned alive or bullied is that they have enough money to not sleep in the streets.
Homelessness encompasses far more than rough sleeping. I agree that there are issues that many homeless people may face that wouldn’t be resolved just by giving them a roof over their head. But it’d be a great start. And don’t forget, a lot of homelessness is people and families in temporary or crisis housing, or couch surfing with friends and family, because they can’t afford a place of their own.
I wouldn’t say this contradicts anything I said, really. I don’t disagree with any of this.
I bristled specifically at the ridiculously glib and reductive “solve homelessness” line. People love to think issues like these are things that have simple obvious solutions that no one thought of before their enlightenment came along and deigned to bless the rest of us.
I mean yeah, it’s a glib portrayal but I don’t think it’s wrong to present it this way. It’s a fact that a few of America’s most wealthy have enough money to house every homeless person in the US, with enough to spare to keep themselves in megayachts and luxury Texan compounds. It drives home the massive wealth inequality.
It also really isn’t infeasible to build enough homes to house all the homeless in the US within one or two years. It’s not infeasible to spend that same amount of time setting up universal basic income and healthcare. Those three things are achievable and would make a positive, life-long difference to the majority of people experiencing homelessness.
And there are a handful of people in the US whose combined personal wealth could easily fund all that.
If they have enough to do that, then the government certainly already has enough to accomplish this, no? Even the wealthiest person on the planet’s total net worth is nothing compared to what is already spent every single year by the US government.
I thought it was commonly said that there were more empty houses in the country than there are homeless people, already?
If you’re talking about something that goes only to homeless people, then it’s not “universal”. If you’re now talking about true UBI, I just don’t see how it can be realistically afforded.
Back of the napkin math, a measly $10,000 to every working-age adult in the US amounts to an annual bill of over $2 trillion each year. We have no realistic way of paying for that–even if you squeezed all the billionaires completely dry, it’d only pay for it for a couple of years. And that’s just $10,000.
It just doesn’t seem feasible until/unless we are literally post-scarcity, from the raw numbers. And that’s assuming it doesn’t replace any of the welfare systems already in place–if it would, then it really wouldn’t lift anyone out of anything long-term.
It’s honestly very difficult to believe this, knowing all the trillions upon trillions of dollars the government has already spent over the years on issues like these, without them being ‘solved’.
Giving them a house is the shortest route to address all the other problems. But no, let’s a Neo-Nazi junkie address the issue of deviance.