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Me: trump just got elected, presidents now have broad immunity, how am I supposed to not be not depressed.
Parents: Don’t worry, he was president the first time. We’ll get through it. (he did not have a bunch of yes-men the first time)
Therapist: regurgitates a bunch of BS from DSM-5
Me: 🙃
My thoughts: Obsessively thinks about Green Mario
Similar.
Me: dad is tortured and murdered by capitalism in a surgical rehab facility
Mom and me: suffer
Therapists: talking in circles going nowhere for a long time until I quit because it’s not helping and the drugs prescribed make it worse
Me: 🙃
My thoughts: Obsessively thinks about Green Mario
Me living in another western country:
“Why don’t they think about Green Mario even more?”
This legit came up in convo last night between two other friends and myself. Ones a very close friend and the other is her friend who I’ve been friendly with for years but don’t really know very well although I know we’re all aligned against capitalism to varying extents (as usual I’m always the most extreme, but traumatize someone enough and that’s what they become).
Anyway st Luigi came up in conversation. They’re talking about how it’s understandable and the guy is not a sympathetic victim but murdering for ideology is wrong.
I lose my shit. Oh murdering for ideology is wrong but social murder for profit is acceptable?! Oh we should try to reform this system? Oh that’s where I should direct my anger to, looking into organizations that are “working on it?” Omfg liberals. Even the progressive ones. Even the ones I love dearly. They just don’t get it. if peaceful reform was possible we would of done it already (and no, shut the fuck up about obamacare, it’s garbage and just a handout to insurance companies). You can’t take down a masters house with his tools! The capitalist captured government system we have does not allow for meaningful reform. make peaceful reform impossible and violent revolution is inevitable. It’s easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism, well here we are. Luigi fired the first shot on our side, it’s time for more people to step up.
Anyway. The guy who owns the facility my dad was tortured and killed by? He owns a whole bunch more. Even better? He’s been accused of being a fucking slaver! apparently in one of his care homes he has Filipino indentured servants. And he’s a Zionist, cherry on top of the shit sundae of people who deserve to be six feet in the ground just like my dad who didn’t deserve what he went through.
My moms still alive and I am responsible to care for her as she ages. But once she’s off this planet (and she’s in good health so it will be a while, but I’ve been feeling this way for the last 13 years, wanting revenge, I have a lot of flaws but a lack of patience isn’t one of them) if that guy still exists I’ll add to the list of CEOs being deposed.
Reform doesn’t work. Violence does.
My friends of course are horrified. Whatever. I have very left to live for at this point.
Of course violence works, that’s why the system is so dramatically against it when the masses use it.
Now, don’t just go around and shoot people because you have been wrongdoed, that won’t help anyone.
Sometimes the menace of violence, the possibility of violence, is a much stronger tool. Like you kill and riot only once, but you can strike and unionise, in france they sometimes lock up the “CEO” when they are striking/locking up factories, which shakes out solutions way faster.
The problem is that Americans refuse to unite and organize. That’s why lone wolf shit works - you don’t need to get everybody on board and fight through decades of propagandized minds to get there. You bring up France - France does not have Americas unique problems. What happens in America would never fly in France, they’re willing to burn their whole country down in riots if they need to. Here in America most people are class traitors and have mush for brains because of the insane torrent of endless propaganda. I wish we were like France!
Even organized groups - look at the civil rights movement, or the environmental and animal rights movements. The FBI assassinated civil rights leaders, and there are animal and environmental rights activists in jail with life sentences on terrorism charges (pre 9/11!) for daring to free farm and research lab animals or trying to stop logging of old growth forests by occupying the tree tops.
It’s crystal clear that it’s ok to most Americans for the state to violently repress us, but if we dare fight back even peacefully we’re beaten to shit and worse. France has solidarity, america does not.
Edit - I forgot to respond to this point and feel it’s important enough to come back to:
Now, don’t just go around and shoot people because you have been wrongdoed, that won’t help anyone.
My father being tortured and murdered for profit isn’t simple wrongdoing. It’s not like a partner cheated on me or I lost my job or a friend turned out to be not a real friend. I’ve had all those things happen and for the most part I’ve been peaceful. What happened to my dad however isn’t a one off thing, its how the system operates. there are likely thousands if not millions of people in “care” homes right now being essentially tortured and abused. Left to rot in soiled clothes, full of bed sores, declining health that needs more intensive care than a care home can provide yet they essentially are human traffickers and keep people there against their will or wellbeing. For profit. You see, if you need the care of a hospital, you won’t get it, because then the care home can’t bill insurance for your stay. I don’t want to get too deep into what my dad went through but it hit all of those points and then some. He was livestock to them, not a person but a resource to be exploited. After he died we sued for malpractice and got a pittance. Enough $ to buy a car. My dad was worth more than a fucking car!
The owner of the care facility (with complaints in numerous states and litigation in at least two) has so far only been given slaps on the wrist in the form of fines. Fines are just the cost of doing business to these parasites and are passed off to the consumer anyway. There needs to be jail time for the rich, not just fines. If this guy goes to jail (he won’t) then there is justice and I won’t need revenge.
I’m sorry if I came about as a non sensitive, you are right in all you are saying.
That said, I always thinks the death penalty is such a cheap way out.
Good luck with all, and don’t forget to also live a fulfilling life, I hope you all the best.
I don’t think you weren’t sensitive, I just wanted to make a point about the difference between simple wrong doing / disagreement and social murder. Like the UHC CEO, this guy is also committing a whole lot of social murder for profit in the health care sector, only his company isn’t well known. Also the social murder part being extremely important - there’s a lot of CEOs out there being shitty capitalists, but nobody is saying let’s kill restaurant or auto body shop CEOs because even if they’re awful they’re not causing social murder.
Im gonna quote myself in response to death penalty being the cheap way out:
There needs to be jail time for the rich, not just fines. If this guy goes to jail (he won’t) then there is _justice_ and I won’t need revenge.
I support peaceful means of people facing real consequences for social murder, except the justice system - the peaceful, civilized way that everyone agrees would be a much better way to handle things - isn’t working as intended as it’s been corrupted for quite some time and is only getting worse. The punishments - when they rarely happen - don’t match the crimes at all. I mean look at the opiate epidemic, why aren’t the sacklers in prison? Why do they get to murder by the millions and keep their lifestyles? Where’s our hotline from the NY gov to report when we feel threatened? Why does Dylan roof get Burger King and Luigi look like he’s in a fucking blockbuster action movie with fucking nyc mayor Adam’s getting publicity shots staying close in the frame behind him? What the actual fuck is going on anymore
Why is it that corporations have free speech to donate as much money as they want to political causes yet they’re not subject to the death penalty or life in prison like the rest of us?
Bloodywood: Machai Basad & Gaddaar
You’ll find their voice to be particularly for us and you in particular.
What is that?
A metal band from India
👍🏻
Unfortunately most of psychotherapy is individualistic and focused on getting people “functional” again so that they can generate a profit for capitalists…
It’s kind of like saying that the individual who isn’t responding well to the abysmal conditions created by capitalism is “broken” and not the system itself. So most of the time you are gonna get a “best I can do is give you some pills that dull all your emotions, good and bad”.
tbh I’m much more concerned about “mentally healthy” non-socialists. Either they must have been be brainwashed into ignorance or something human is missing inside of them…
(though I admit that this assessment is based on superficial knowledge)Capitalism causes depression - video by azure scapegoat
EDIT:
Usually I also recommend the following podcast during discussions like these, I have not listened to it myself but only heard good things about it (it’s a leftist mental health podcast, focusing on systemic issues, especially capitalism, for a change):
“It’s Not Just In Your Head”
This is why I knew I found the right therapist when she asked what I’ve been stressed about and I said “the current state of politics” and she just said “oh yeah, fair” and we started working on how to manage it while understanding that the root cause is still truly as bad as it is.
I totally agree with your standpoint, but would like to add that in this whole thread no one has mentioned that many people do need help as individuals. While I have made many negative experiences with therapists only trying to get me functional again, analyzing mental health problems away isn’t going to work either. I feel like focusing only on the structural problems in this context is ignoring the individuals fighting mental health problems. That’s what also frustrated me with the antipsychiatric movement.
We should be able to discuss both the structural and individual levels, because both are essential to actually solving any problems.
Half of my mental health problems would be solved if the state and capitalism didn’t require themselves to exist.
Generalized Anxiety Disorder? Majorly lessened if I don’t need to worry about food or shelter being stripped away if someone in my family gets sick or we lose income.
ADHD? Managed if ADHD meds weren’t locked on the governmental level with cocaine and heroin, and the companies actually made more of the life saving medicine they hold hostage.
Bipolar disorder and Autism have no pills to solve, only mask the problems until they bubble. Ask me what medications I’ve tried for Bipolar, and I’ll tell you why they didn’t work.
Ask me what therapy methods I’ve tried and explained to my therapist network “Therapy helps with some things, but it doesn’t solve the major issues of stress, anexity, and depression” before they kicked me off for a profit margin hidden as “This person doesn’t want help, because they are too caught up in the lives of themselves and their families.”
Yes, there’s medications that help people. But after some point, the problem is no longer with that person, its the environment. Sometimes its an abusive family member. Sometimes it a toxic workplace. Most of the time its a death cult called capitalism.
For sure, like I said I agree that it is a structural problem. But we won’t abolish capitalism and get rid of its brainwashing anywhere soon. In an utopian future, I can imagine all kinds of better ways how neurodiversity and generally diversity could be better incorporated into society and where we wouldn’t need psychiatric institutions etc. But we unfortunately do live under capitalism and people are clearly affected by it. So, for now we certainly need some sort of help for mental health problems. It is up for debate, how this should look and I don’t particularly like the psychiatric complex. But people need help nonetheless. A person with mental health problems may try to analyze capitalism as the root cause of their problems, but this won’t dismantle capitalism either. At best this a form of self-efficacy, at worst a way to try to avoid overcoming deeper individual struggles.
ETA: and yes, I totally understand where you are coming from with the neurodivergent angle. If you just don’t fit in society and the capitalist system, you get sanctioned and bullied for it all the time. This certainly won’t go away with therapy apart from maybe making you fit in a bit better at your own cost (or even worse, brainwashing you to repress your own expressions). Same goes for being otherwise divergent, like being trans.
agree with you here too. Individual problems exist and should be taken seriously as well. I took that as a given and thus didn’t mention it and wanted to focus more on the side that gets neglected faaaar too often
Socialism will not solve all mental health issues, people will always have personal problems, familiar predispositions etc. etc.
However, a lot of conditions/triggers/main reason would be resolvedAs you said, it’s both structural/systemic and individual problems. We need both a change in economics and social structures, that empower the working people of this world, bring the economy into their ownership and democratise it and high quality non-dogmatig and unstigmatised free healthcare, social services and so on
I totally get why you highlighted the structural side of it. In discussions of mental health problems it usually gets dismissed or ignored. In capitalist fashion, many of these problems get blamed on the individuals :(
from what i experienced in the last 15 years of psychotherapy: a good therapist wants you “functional” in the sense that you can live your life without major self-induced hiccups and with as much self-determination as possible, and not “functional” as a machine. But it seems that even this aspect of healthcare gets corrupted by for-profit healthcare - the people going there are probably expecting to just get fixed like a car (which means you will land back at you therapist or psychiatrist sooner rather than later), and the medical institutions have an incentive in not really fixing your issues.
Therapy can be used for a lot of other things, though, and I find this take can scare a lot of people away from it.
They’re only human so you gotta find someone who’s good and works well for you but they’re great for relationships or trauma or just venting. Mine’s awesome and doesn’t try to tell me that actually working is so great or that my ADHD is problem.
There are so many people who really need it that don’t go because “it doesn’t work anyway”.
Sorry if it seemed like I said that therapy doesn’t work. My comment was not meant as such
I was more talking about the function of psychotherapy for mental illnesses under capitalism and it’s structural purpose from the perspective of political economy
Speaking as a therapist (seriously) the purpose of therapy is whatever the client says it is.
As a therapist looking at some of the new therapy organisations that rhyme with Fetta Yelp, I totally agree with you
According to my wife (also a therapist), the purpose of therapy is to generate enough paperwork to satisfy the whimsy of the government and private insurers.
After that, if she’s actually helped people and gotten paid, it’s a bonus.
Unfortunately your initial comment did sound a fair bit like “therapy doesn’t work it just serves capitalism.“ I would be very careful with how you phrase that point.
huh, I assumed that because of me never mentioning the effectives that it would be perceived as neutral since I didn’t criticise that aspect, but rather psychotherapy from a meta pov
The opening statement kind of sets the tone but it’s not a huge deal. Just something to consider.
Thank you for your feedback! I still struggle with expressing my thoughts in a way that’d help prevent misunderstandings…
It’s kind of like saying that the individual who isn’t responding well to the abysmal conditions created by capitalism is “broken” and not the system itself. So most of the time you are gonna get a “best I can do is give you some pills that dull all your emotions, good and bad”.
It’s me ✨😎🥰
When I constantly stated the same reasons for attending mental healthcare when I got there, after a shake up in the ownership of the network, I was terminated coverage by my place because no one there got it into their head:
Major sources of depression and anxiety aren’t fixable with therapy and pills, they are only fixed with a major change in income and political climate. Even if I somehow have a job that pays 8 figures, it doesn’t solve the social issues of me and my friends being future victims with no way to stop it.
And then they just went “Well since you’re too focused on what you can’t change, you can’t change at all, buh-bye!”
At some point I just gotta wonder who’s actually mentally ill. The people who see the truth and try to change it despite the lack of influence, or the people who ignore it and say everything is okay.
I mean, when I expressed to my last therapist of the network “Hey this place in town, violated the state labor laws and I’m trying to figure out if I can sue them.” she just said “But I like the gas in my tank.”
I’m sorry you had to go through all that, it sounds horrible and should never have been allowed to happen in that way…
Reading this makes me both melancholy and angry. Capitalism is directly (and indirectly) responsible for many uncountable injuries, injustices and indiscretions…
I struggle with my mental health quite a lot as well (+ neurodivergency. medial asd diagnosis is otw lol), though even in Germany I’m in a privileged positions and just can’t seem to get better no natter what I do. The only thing keeping me alive is revolutionary optimism and trying to contribute to the progress of humanity in the best way I am able to
Stay strong ✊ I know this probably doesn’t mean much but you have my solidarity and please know that many people are fighting for a just tomorrow. not all is lost
it’s more like, a lot of psychotherapy is individualistic and focused on getting people functional again, so they can do what is important and meaningful to them.
that might be in alignment with capitalism or social norms, or it might not be.
Be careful, “people who disagree with me are non-humans” is a dangerous path to start down…
that’s not what I said, though? I was expressing my worry about ppl who look at the state of the world and are perfectly happy/unworried and unaffected by the circumstances emotionally, mb even missing some emotional empathy. I was not talking about their “humanness” as a whole…
Nowhere did I say smth about ppl who “I don’t agree with”, I disagree with some socialists too on many points ^^’
No pills or therapy you can take that solves poverty.
No pills or therapy that solves a political slip into fascism.
No pills or therapy that fix people mistreating you for something you were born with.
No pills or therapy that give you more rights that a government refuses to give.
Only pills and therapy to mask your feelings to be a productive worker drone for the spiral of ants.
Therapy can help people develop effective communication skills for self-advocacy, and emotion regulation skills to stay calm under pressure.
Therapy can help people notice things they didn’t notice before that might improve their thoughts/outlook, and better understand both themselves and others.
It can help people to clarify and organize their priorities, and improve motivation and increase the rate of progress toward their goals.
A good therapist (usually of the social worker variety, ime) will help you navigate and pursue resources via government, NGOs, and even local mutual aid networks
Therapists act as agents of social control in that we’re pushed as the solution to problems which actually have systemic causes, but therapy doesn’t have to be inherently oppressive
Well said.
To help the individual to fit into a society which is ever at war with itself – is this what psychologists and analysts are supposed to do? Is the individual to be healed only in order to kill or be killed? If one is not killed, or driven insane, then must one only fit into the structure of hate, envy, ambition and superstition which can be very scientific?
- Jiddu Krishnamurti
Is society healthy, that an individual should return to it? Has not society itself helped to make the individual unhealthy? Of course, the unhealthy must be made healthy, that goes without saying; but why should the individual adjust himself to an unhealthy society? If he is healthy, he will not be a part of it. Without first questioning the health of society, what is the good of helping misfits to conform to society?"
- more Krishnamurti
To be fair, there hasn’t really been a dismantling of oppressive social systems in a long while (major ones anyway), so that’s not really that great of a strategy to rely on
You must believe before everything else that the revolution must come, that there is no other choice.
-Abdullah OcalanThe belief that “history has ended” and that there will be no major revolutions in our lifetimes is one of the greatest weapons of capital and the ruling elites in general.
If we are to progress as a species, socialist revolution is a historic necessity, there is no other way.
Trying to make capitalism care for humans, animals, nature, our environments and climate; trying to mate it more “humane”/green/queer-friendly/feminist etc. etc. is simply impossible since all those things are in direct opposition to the interests of capital (e.g. profits forever growing).Sure you might get a few concessions here and there, but those are usually funded by outsourcing the gravest forms of exploitation to the global south; in the rare case that capitalists do give in and decrease their profit margin, a timer starts ticking towards one of the following: either neoliberal austerity or fascism
Don’t get me wrong, I fully agree with you and the post. It’s what SHOULD be happening - after all, the rich and powerful are not going to let power be voted away from them, which means some kind of direct action is needed.
My issue, however, is that there’s just no such action happening in reality and there really hasn’t been for decades - there are protests, there are some attempts, but they’re nowhere close to being successful enough to make an impact. Hell, the right seems to be doing a better job on that regard for some reason, with events like January 6th being something that the left should have been doing.
With all this in mind, that kind of rhetoric starts sounding more like empty slogans or even LARPing in a way.
you seem to be talking about the USA specifically. The USA is not the only country that exists
I’m not from US, but rather Eastern Europe, though I do admit that the most news I see is from US due to them being the majority on most popular internet sites.
That being said, I’m not talking just about the US but rather western world as a whole, particularly US, Western Europe and my home country, Lithuania. Unless I slept through some event where oppressive systems there got dismantled this century, what I wrote should, at least from my perspective, still apply to those regions and not just the US.
ah I misunderstood you then, mb
Before the monarchies started falling they had been in control for a long while too…
Just takes one coordination signal loud enough and a population displeased enough…
And, ideally, a good idea for a replacement system, so we don’t just end up with power held by the most ruthless…
I agree, but also, sometimes “dismantling oppressive social systems” means things like volunteering at a community food bank, or using one’s privilege as a cis woman to obtain free, prescribed estrogen that you can give to a trans woman who is unable to get her HRT officially, or joining a tenants union and turning up to resist an unfair eviction because fighting back as a tenant is hard even when the law is on your side.
It sort of reminds me of trying to stop biting my nails; I made multiple attempts to do so over the years, and I only found success when I realised I needed to replace the habit I was trying to break with a new one, rather than just subtracting the nail biting habit.
For me, recognising that systemic problems lie at the heart of many of my ails led me to look outwards and find solidarity within my community, which has led to me being more securely supported by mutual aid networks and the like.
Obergfell was 9 years ago.
No no no. Therapists are modern priests. It is your duty to accept your failure to thrive within the structural oppression, for your misery is manifested in mysterious ways, or the consequences of you choosing the wrong side of fairness
