guess it was negotiable after all
Well, would you look at that, if it ain’t the consequences of their own actions.
This doesn’t end well.
What if it becomes a requirement of software not available outside of their OS?
Of the CPU itself?
DRM intensifies
Ain’t going to stop my folks from switching to Linux mint.
Linux Mint Gang!
Are we becoming “I use Mint BTW”?
Yes,
I use arch BTW.
Well there goes my strategy of turning off tpm to prevent a sneaky upgrade.
What’s the current best way to prevent an unwanted Windows 11 upgrade?
Linux.
I say this as someone using Win11. I’m okay with using it, but if you don’t want to, then just go to Linux.
You can still do that, the article is fucking stupid. If you don’t have the correct requirements you will never get Windows 11 officially. You can however create a custom install of Win 11 using tools like Rufus to bypass the TPM requirements.
The point of the change is that now if you install it on an unsupported machine, you won’t get any official support; they’re not stopping you from messing with the OS installer but you will still NOT get the upgrade officially and if you do upgrade and find some issue they ain’t helping you.
IIRC they used to pester users with this unsupported setup to upgrade to a correct setup and they won’t do that any more.
I don’t want Windows 11. It performs like shit. But I guarantee this will lead to sneaky upgrades.
Many people are going to say Linux. It’s probably annoying to hear, but its just the truth at this point. It probably seems daunting to switch over, but let me give you a very brief suggestion from a beginner on how to smooth over the transition.
Load up youtube and watch a few videos reviewing linux distributions for beginners just to see what’s recommended. My personal recommendation is to stick with a distro that uses KDE Plasma as the desktop environment since it will be very familiar coming from Windows. Once you decide what looks best for you…
Check and see if your computer has an available SATA port on the motherboard. If it does, grab yourself a SATA SSD and put your choice of a Linux distribution on it. Once Linux is up and running, set your BIOS to boot into Linux by default. Use Linux for everything you can and slowly migrate your workflow over to the new OS. Keep Windows as it is on its original drive and boot into it whenever you encounter something that doesn’t work or you haven’t set up on Linux yet. Don’t stress about rushing through this part. You have almost a year before Win10 is unsupported. Take your time and enjoy the process.
Over time, your Linux OS will become very useful for you as you uncover more ways to use it instead of Windows and Windows will be reserved for those infrequent edge cases where your needs are not met by Linux. This decouples you from the Microsoft ecosystem, making their enshittification less impactful on your life. I followed this exact path and I’m now a near full-time Linux user with Nobara as my chosen distribution and I could not be happier. I love my PC again.
The only thing I use Windows for now is sim racing games, as I haven’t yet dedicated time to find out how to get the expensive sim racing peripherals I own working on Linux yet. Apparently it’s possible and some people have had great success with it. This is something I will be actively working on over the coming year. Everything else I own runs perfect on Linux. I run a home studio so that means a lot of audio peripherals and specialized software. For 95% of my use case, Nobara just works.
The transition will take some work, but in the end if you can get yourself away from dependence on Windows, the options and freedom available to you expand like crazy. Its worth it just to show Microsoft that no, they no longer have a stranglehold on desktop PC users. The more we engage with non-mainstream options, the more the mainstream has to behave itself.
I’m actually doing what you are suggesting for about a month or so now, and i’m also on Nobara!
Today i booted windows for the first time in 2 weeks, just to change the date format as kde wasn’t booting for some weird ansi character problem in the date. Apparently I changed the time on the motherboard and broke something.
That said, i’ve been playing games with basically 0 issues so far (many indies, rdr2 and a copule others) and doing what i usually did on windows.
Hot damn, that’s awesome. Glad you’re enjoying it! Nobara is great!
Did the same thing. Finally settled on OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, but Nobara looks good too.
It’s hard to cold turkey jump to Linux, transitioning to Linux should be the default recommendation.
Yeah, I’d never recommend cold turkey-ing it. That’s a recipe for dissatisfaction I think. A gradual transition is easy and there’s so much less pressure when things go awry.
I still have windows for VR. Maybe there’s a solution, but VR is enough of a hassle. I’m glad I’ve still got the windows drive around in that sense
I tried switching about a decade ago, when gaming wasn’t really possible. I ended up just not using it. Recently, after proton, I tried to dual boot again, to slowly transition. I chose to install them on the same drive on different partitions, and this worked fine until I booted into Windows one time and it updated and nuked the boot partition. I just swore off Windows at that point because Linux was now handling everything I needed. Anything I wanted with Windows I could live without, and it’s been fantastic since.
I was on Fedora then, and I’m on Garuda now. Both are good, but a few things with Fedora annoyed me (they were done for a reason but I didn’t like it). Garuda has been great. I’ve had zero complaints.
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Not sure why someone downvoted you, so have an upvote. The peripherals thing for gaming is a tough one for sure.
Thanks. Some people are Linux super fans. They don’t like to admit there’s a bad use case for it.
I take no pleasure in pointing out the deficiency. Wish I had the expertise to help fix it.
The community is definitely working hard on getting peripherals working. I’m kind of amazed by how much better things have gotten in the last 5 years.
It really depends on your hardware. With an AMD video card, it works blissfully.
If you still need/want Windows, get an LTSC certain. 10 is supported through 2028 iirc, and the IoT version through 2032.
I haven’t tried the LTSC version of 11 yet, so no idea if it’s worth trying.
Steve Gibson’s InControl probably a no research needed option https://www.grctech.com/incontrol/details.htm
I’ve been listening to the security now podcast for about 8 years, so my trust of him and yours might vary. The website looks like web 1.0 because it is.
He wrote Neuromancer right? Sick book
Bill Gibson did Neuromancer. Steve Gibson did Spinrite. No relationship as far as I know.
Gib must have had a lot of sons.
Mad props
Installing XP? I don’t think you’ll get any upgrades.
Uninstalling that fucking malware?
Using something other than windows as your primary OS, and interfacing with windows through a virtual machine where necessary.
Not really a real solution, though, but some folks make it work pretty well.
Do not use Windows :D
I want to chain myself to this company but… Can I get a pink one? I don’t really li-
MICROSOFT: “NO”
I still cannot understand the utiliy of tpm, except for tricking tech illiterate people to spend money on a new pc.
It’s OS level DRM.
It’s a way of tying an encryption key to the processor. Depending on how you look at it that’s either a good way to ensure your disks aren’t readable if they’re separated from your machine or a vendor lock-in.
Man, I recently ran into this shit when I bought a computer for my patents. I wanted to upgrade their hard drive and the fucking thing wouldn’t boot unless I fully cloned the original hard drive into the new one.
I never even knew about this fuckery
It certainly can be a pain in the proverbials. It’s one of those things that can be good or bad. When it’s the end user deliberately choosing to use it, it can provide extra peace of mind and lock down certain attack vectors, when it’s the vendor doing it, it’s just a way to make it harder to service your machine. That it also still locks down certain attack vectors is almost a byproduct in that scenario.
Where’s the source for the supposed U-turn? I only see the article defending TPM.
TPM is still part of what they’re calling “minimum system requirements” but they’re allowing you to install without it. There will be big scary warnings though and they’re threatening to not provide support.
Time will tell what happens. I believe if they see a significant portion of Windows 10 users on legacy devices without TPM upgrade to 11 they’ll continue to support it because the data they suck up is more valuable to them than the effort to support it.
The OS being unsupported is a terrible idea. Especially is you’re relying on Defender for EDR… either switch OS’es or upgrade. There is no sense in running vulnerable devices. You’re only creating more attack surfaces. I sympathize with the user that can’t afford an upgrade, but they gotta aware and accountable of the consequence. Arch, btw
I’m going to be honest here. If someone asks you for Windows help and you comment to tell them to use Linux, you’re an asshole, not clever.
As someone else said it really depends on what they’re actually asking for.
If they’re like “how do I make the screen turn off after an hour?” then telling them to switch to Linux is a bad response.
If they were like “I cant upgrade to windows 11, and I don’t even want to, and I don’t want to spend money. I just want a web browser and steam with security updates” then talking about Linux is a viable conversation path.
Yeah, most of the time when I get asked for windows help it’s with the subtext that windows is just a piece of shit OS that gets in the way of what they want to do more often than not, and it’s like, Linux at this point will handle 95% of what you want to do. As you said, Gaming, at least with newer and mainstream titles, and web browsing are easy money, word processing/spreadsheets are mostly covered with LibreOffice and the like. The GUI’s a little different but the fact that most distros have one is enough to convince a lot of people to switch.
The professional world might be stuck on Windows for a while just because it’s the norm and most businesses want plug-and-play, but there’s few reasons for personal computing to live in Windows anymore.
I’m going to be honest here. If someone asks you for Windows help and you comment to tell them to use Linux, you’re an asshole, not clever.
If every year people ask for help because they’ve been weakened by a COVID infection, yet they refuse free vaccinations, then they are the assholes.
Stop defending tax-evading unethical monopolies who don’t give a crap about their users, only their profits. And stop defending lackadaisical people who have the potential to literally change the world by being part of a snowball that could eventually avalanche Microsoft’s monopoly away. Instigating change here could be so easy. For goodness’ sake we’re talking about a change of software, not sacrificing one’s life by taking a bullet or shooting one. Stand up for what you believe in. To hell with Windows. To hell with Microsoft.
I would say that depends on why they are asking for help, you have got to get to the root of the issue first.
Some people can’t see the problem because of the trees.
If your problem is not with windows, but windows at it’s core… Then the solution is to move. You also have Mac if that makes you happy
The problem is that Linux just isn’t usable for the largest home computing demographic.
Linux users can’t even agree on anything significant to make progress on the distros because they’d rather abandon it and try again in a new setting. It feels like a modpack of the month, year, etc, at this point. Unstable, filled with crashes and bugs, even fedora. Incomplete documentation with half defined terms and uses due to the constant splintering. It makes it worse to learn than whatever the fuck is Microsoft’s shit documentation.
I guess you too only see the trees. A solution is not to leave the forest but to bend the trees to your will. Wherever the forest is, instead of cowering before it. A shoddy tradesman blames his tools and all that.
The largest home computing demographic only needs a browser, that’s why a lot of people are OK with Chromebook or even tablets/phones. Definitely they don’t read documentation.
Not for you? OK, don’t use it. But don’t assume it’s not for other people, specially when they are having issues with the alternative.
The people who only use a browser are supposed to understand the obfuscation issues Linux has, something that even the fedora installer is renowned for struggling with?
I never said it wasn’t for them, the person pushing others to go to Linux because of an issue with windows was doing that.
I merely said that’s ignoring the direct issue and the underlying complications those pushing for Linux constantly ignore for new and beginner users. Folks should instead make with what they have, what they can.
It’s the equivalent to asking for help with a car issue and being told to buy a new car. Ignoring the learning curve, time, and setup. A bootable drive is a complicated thing to understand for the largest demographic.
Also notice how you said Chromebook or Android, however not any proper Linux distro because it sadly isn’t there for the hobby enthusiasts. Only a large organization was able to standardize and solve the main issues with Linux by completely neutering. The same way windows did before it, but at that point you’re arguing the lesser evil when the point of Linux is to be free of those evils.
The people who only use a browser are supposed to understand the obfuscation issues Linux has, something that even the fedora installer is renowned for struggling with?
What obfuscation issues? I don’t want to pick much on this because it’s probably a typo or mistranslation, but it’s very weird.
I merely said that’s ignoring the direct issue and the underlying complications those pushing for Linux constantly ignore for new and beginner users. Folks should instead make with what they have, what they can.
No, folks should make informed decisions. If somebody can move from windows to Mac or vice versa, they can use Mint.
It’s the equivalent to asking for help with a car issue and being told to buy a new car. Ignoring the learning curve, time, and setup. A bootable drive is a complicated thing to understand for the largest demographic.
No, buying a new car is the equivalent to what Microsoft is telling them (buy new PC) if they want to have an OS with security updates.
Also notice how you said Chromebook or Android, however not any proper Linux distro because it sadly isn’t there for the hobby enthusiasts
No, I told because those are mainstream. Stop projecting your opinions.
Let’s agree to disagree.
Edit: removed non productive bits
Linux has a lot of issues with information being hard to find. Not purposely or done with malice. Just an issue inherent when dealing with hundreds of distros, versions, and hardware variables alone are a bitch.
I love Linux btw, it just sadly isn’t there for my use case. It’s not the community, it’s just a slow and arduous transition. Just a good emp away from a reform lmao
.
That’s the beauty of the internet friend. They have information, p2p, and hope. :)
However when you ask for help unscrewing a rounded Phillips, someone will tell you about the optimal screw to prevent it. It’s helpful, but most people are just trying to fix their shit and don’t design it.
Both CAN be true about the car example, that’s the beauty about information! We are well informed.
Please recommend me distros is what that means, I’d love to learn about them. Sadly everything I’ve tried is unstable or constantly deters me from doing anything right when I want it.
Microsoft is dog shit but it just works, that’s the benefit. The same benefit android has nowadays, which Google used to help make ChromeOS a smooth transition. I miss old android phones, trackball on android 4 was still a blast even with the 5 minute boot and overheating.
The problem is that Linux just isn’t usable for the largest home computing demographic.
Linux users can’t even agree on anything significant to make progress on the distros because they’d rather abandon it and try again in a new setting. It feels like a modpack of the month, year, etc, at this point. Unstable, filled with crashes and bugs, even fedora. Incomplete documentation with half defined terms and uses due to the constant splintering. It makes it worse to learn than whatever the fuck is Microsoft’s shit documentation.
I guess you too only see the trees. A solution is not to leave the forest but to bend the trees to your will. Wherever the forest is, instead of cowering before it. A shoddy tradesman blames his tools and all that.
Is this all AI generated? None of these arguments are valid nor true. So much so that I don’t see the point of refuting them because of Brandolini’s law: “The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.”
You still went out of your way to refute it (and formatted it with a pretty inline link) and claim it’s AI, then said the arguments are invalid without any real rhyme or reason.
Just to tout your little knowledge about a philosophical quandary, rather than have any form of credible or valuable input.
You’re right though, rust is being assimilated and easily facilitated in the transition by the file systems. There totally hasn’t been an ongoing fiasco just about this purely. Something that would greatly increase and benefit system stability without overhead.
Keep interjecting with your irrelevant and valueless input, your pompousness and others like that are the reason Linux isn’t more accessible by the general masses.
They’re downvoting you though, so that means they’re right and Linux is perfect and everything runs on it with no manual work needing to be done at all. We’re just idiots of course.
The community always says Google, but yet don’t understand that the issue is a language barrier.
From speaking, living, and understanding in this architecture. You lose all contextual understanding and with it the ability to word your problems.
The flatpacks have definitely revolutionized Linux for home usage, however the way they are hierarchie’d causes issues in my opinion. Fedora is getting there and I’m excited to try bazzite once the holidays are over.
I can’t wait for virtualization to be fully adapted for hardware. Directly reserving the hardware to certain uses would reduce the need for 4 PC’s in my use case.
The headline is incorrect Microsoft has not reversed the TPM requirements. Soon the advice from people who help those with PCs who don’t meet TPM requirements will be either to buy a new computer or move to linux.
I don’t like this answer anymore than you do. It’s an eco-waste nightmare.
(You can bypass TPM requirements but it could end up being a huge headache as Microsoft makes no guarantee that they won’t randomly break things.)
What if I tell them to use Haiku?
Mhh your opinion is wrong, probably because you are running Windows. I would suggest switching to a Linux based system.
Windows user asking for help with Windows != Windows user complain about Windows overall.
The first case, ok: you’re being an asshole, answer to questions not made just because you want to feel clever.
Second case, well, we need to check the specific wording/complains. But generally speaking, if someone complain about train or how train make them sick, you may as well introduce them to the concept of airplane/bus/carsharing/teleport or whatever.
In Linux case, I’ll go with sort of reply: “give it a try with this live [reliable] Linux disrto, if like the experience, you may as well try dual booting”
“There’s no elephant in this room.”
Windows is the problem. There’s the elephant. Your choice.
If not, I guess just keep waiting it out. I’m sure it will get better any day now.
Just like using gas cars is your choice when you coulda been using something open source like rickshaws
Or an EV
Or an electric rickshaw!
Probably a great vehicle. Lightweight, good range, etc
Just strap a rickshaw to 2 electric bikes taped together…job done! 👍
I’m sorry, I should’ve considered your situation.
I wasn’t aware you lacked the ability to use your computer. How inconsiderate. I was under the impression you weren’t renting it.
Thanks for apologizing, not enough people are considerate in regards to the plight of the compu-renters, or “shareware” as we are commonly known. As a token of my acknowledgement of your submission, I am currently taking a shit.
I’m not the one seeking help here, just calling out poor behavior. You’re helping no one with this constantly being posted.
If they’re still using Windows, they aren’t following the guide very well.
Fuckin up at step 1 doesn’t inspire confidence from me
Lol
This is misleading, tech linked did an explanation about this the other day https://youtu.be/Jio-Wq11K80
I think this is the source for the article
That page does not mention tpm, and on the requirenments page TPM 2.0 is still listed:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/windows-11-specifications
EDIT: OK I see it now, it says that the requirenments are still in place, but that they are not enforced. But it also notes that future updates may not be available to computers that does not fullfill the requirenments
I think it’s just scare tactics to get people to buy a new computer. I really doubt that Microsoft will withhold updates because it will cause huge security problems.
It’s more about manufacturers, they want all new laptops to have a tpm, if those mobo/laptop manufacturers want the shiny “compatible with win11” stickers they have to add a tpm.
They’re not withholding, this is a normal lifecycle for their OS’es (technically this one is already an extended deadline due to covid). The fact that Win10 had a 10 year life is the first time they have done so (LTS builds not withstanding). The amount of vulnerabilities and patching necessary to keep that husk going isn’t worth the squeeze to them.
Even Linux builds are lucky to reach 10 years of support on a given kernel.
I guess it’s fine. I was concerned because of the processor requirements, but the real quality bottleneck was spinning drives.
A non enforced requirement sounds like it is not a requirement.
I see it more like that Microsoft are saying something like "Fine, you can install Windows 11 without meeting the official minimum requirenments, but we can’t promise that future patches won’t break your system.
I mean if I was a shitty corporation that wanted to onboard new clients I would do a sweet bait and switch later once they are dependant on the new system… And I don’t just mean Microsoft, it is common now
You bet they make it a requirement again, after most Win10 users downgraded?
As a result, some consumers resorted to purchasing TPM modules for their existing hardware, while others turned to customized Windows 11 ISOs that bypassed the TPM requirement entirely.
Who is doing this?!? If you are a business user, your company should pay for a new PC. If you are a gamer, you have a year to upgrade your MB. Everyone else has a year to figure out if Linux is right for them. At this point, Linux can perfectly cover most non-business users or those who are not multiplayer online gamers.
The amount of corporate environments running old builds, 3+ patches behind or pro/home versions would shock anybody with an inkling of security awareness.
If you’re going to run Windows as a business and especially if you’re going to rely on Defender, you gotta be on top of shit. Most are woefully far outside of that
I got the notice to update to 11 a long time ago, then months later a notice my work laptop did not comply with requirements of TPM, but CPU OK.
For my HP workstation it had TPM 1.x and there was a firmware update that brought chip up to TPM 2.0. After I did that the W11 then said CPU doesn’t pass.
Then recently CPU is fine. LOL
They don’t even know what they want.
For home stuff everything is moved to Linux.
I play Xonotic btw. You can play minecraft and terraria on Linux too.
I play tons of games on Linux. I was mainly referring to AAA online multiplayer games with anti-cheat like COD, Valorant, Apex Legends, etc.
No, it can’t, because it is not even remotely as user friendly - and even if it was, the mere fact that its user experience is extremely different makes a switch quite difficult to anyone but the most basic users (who need little more than a web browser).
LOL. Linux is what I install for elderly family members precisely because, depending on the distro, it is moron proof. Not every distro is Arch or SuSE.
Do your elderly family members belong to the aforementioned group of most basic users?
If my that you mean basically tech illiterate and the type of people that asked me to program their VCRs and whose oven always blinks 12:00, then yes. The only reason I do not set them up on Chromebooks is because the hardware sucks.
I am not a Linux elitist. I have run Linux almost from the start (1996), but I also run Windows and Mac. I believe in the motto of “use the best tool for the job” and right now I genuinely believe that Linux distros with cohesive desktop environments are the best choice for the majority of users. Not everyone, but certainly the vast majority of home users that would be affected by the end of Win 10 support.
