The problem is, even when you try to separate the two, there is still some initial connection there.
If I meet a Jewish person I’ve never met before, I’m not going to just immediately assume they are a horrible fascist who supports killing children. However, one of the first questions that will enter my head is: “Is this person pro-Israel?” and unfortunately, I can’t just assume the answer is no. It’s also a question I need an answer to before I’m comfortable interacting with said person.
It’s a similar feeling to meeting someone from Russia, or hell, meeting someone from the US. The first, immediate, question I need the answer to is “Does the person I’m talking to support the absolutely unforgivable shit their country is doing?” because if the answer is yes, I don’t want to interact with that person a second more than I have to. The only difference with Jewish people is that they don’t have to be from Israel for that question to come up.
That’s kind of the same with Catholics and pedophilia for example, to the slightly lesser extend. We shouldn’t conflate regular people who were born into Catholicism, and even who still say they believe in it. And yet, by remaining Catholic they support an organisation which purpose is to spend Nazi gold to protect pedophiles. And they can stop doing that, but don’t.
Since this isn’t the first genocide, would it still be fair to be anti religion for this reason? Maybe it’s time for Jews to see what religion does to people, and that even Jews aren’t safe from this garbage.
If you wanna try and convince people to abandon organized religon by educating them on the atrocities organized religon have wrought throughout history then have at it.
I know… Like an entire generation mobilized to stop what Germany was doing to the Jews, and try and bring them some kind of justice.
Then they thank the world by spying on their allies, extorting them into authoritarian regimes using their state funded child sex ring. Then they go on to commit genocide, and act like anyone who opposes it is an antisemite.
No, people just generally don’t support genocide and whole sale slaughter of civilians.
Don’t think of it as “jews show their thanks like this” that’s an easy path to accidentally fostering bigotry. Of course a nation founded by victims of genocide and members of the affected group around the world whose group has been victim to many genocides in their millennium + of diaspora are going to spy on everyone. Especially considering that the USA and USSR both took nazi talent in after the war, and that nobody cared enough to fight when it was just Jews’ word against Germany’s.
This is yet another settler colonialist nation committing genocide after decades of dehumanization of their victims. Israel associates itself with the international Jewish community and their tragic history in the same way the United States does with the concept of democracy and freedom or the USSR did with the international proletariat. Every non-Israeli Jew and a good chunk of the Israeli ones could hate Israel with the passion many of my Jewish friends do. They could hate it enough to blot out Israel as well as Haman on Purim. And even then Israel would claim to stand for them and speak for them and that criticism of Israel is antisemitism.
We must maintain our opposition to genocide and our opposition to bigotry based on racial or ethnic lines. We must force the citizens of Israel and its supporters to see the humanity of the starving Palestinians, just as we forced the people of Germany and the world to see the humanity of the Jewish people, and just as we should have done in America any time in the past 300 or so years with our indigenous peoples.
Stop now and separate them in your head. There are Jewish people all over the world that have nothing to do with Israel. There are also Jews that are Israeli who denounce their government.
Never been antisemitic in my life, not even a drop. Now when I hear the word “Jew” I feel negative about it, “Israel” even more so.
I think it is really important to try and not conflate being Jewish with being pro-Israel.
Personally I am not willing to condem everyone of Jewish faith due to Israels actions.
The problem is, even when you try to separate the two, there is still some initial connection there.
If I meet a Jewish person I’ve never met before, I’m not going to just immediately assume they are a horrible fascist who supports killing children. However, one of the first questions that will enter my head is: “Is this person pro-Israel?” and unfortunately, I can’t just assume the answer is no. It’s also a question I need an answer to before I’m comfortable interacting with said person.
It’s a similar feeling to meeting someone from Russia, or hell, meeting someone from the US. The first, immediate, question I need the answer to is “Does the person I’m talking to support the absolutely unforgivable shit their country is doing?” because if the answer is yes, I don’t want to interact with that person a second more than I have to. The only difference with Jewish people is that they don’t have to be from Israel for that question to come up.
It’s only fair to extend that suspicion to meeting Christians as well, the vast majority of Zionists are Christian.
I think I’m more suspicious of Christians than Jews on that front (among many many others)
Right. Not every Jewish person is pro- Isreal, but the only pro Isreal person in my immediate circle is Jewish.
That’s kind of the same with Catholics and pedophilia for example, to the slightly lesser extend. We shouldn’t conflate regular people who were born into Catholicism, and even who still say they believe in it. And yet, by remaining Catholic they support an organisation which purpose is to spend Nazi gold to protect pedophiles. And they can stop doing that, but don’t.
Important to note that SAN’s side effect of stoking this kind of resentment only plays into their hands, ultimately.
Since this isn’t the first genocide, would it still be fair to be anti religion for this reason? Maybe it’s time for Jews to see what religion does to people, and that even Jews aren’t safe from this garbage.
There’s nothing but reasons to be anti-religion.
If you wanna try and convince people to abandon organized religon by educating them on the atrocities organized religon have wrought throughout history then have at it.
Can my first step be to ask you to stop letting religious people off the hook for being genocidal maniacs?
I know… Like an entire generation mobilized to stop what Germany was doing to the Jews, and try and bring them some kind of justice.
Then they thank the world by spying on their allies, extorting them into authoritarian regimes using their state funded child sex ring. Then they go on to commit genocide, and act like anyone who opposes it is an antisemite.
No, people just generally don’t support genocide and whole sale slaughter of civilians.
Don’t think of it as “jews show their thanks like this” that’s an easy path to accidentally fostering bigotry. Of course a nation founded by victims of genocide and members of the affected group around the world whose group has been victim to many genocides in their millennium + of diaspora are going to spy on everyone. Especially considering that the USA and USSR both took nazi talent in after the war, and that nobody cared enough to fight when it was just Jews’ word against Germany’s.
This is yet another settler colonialist nation committing genocide after decades of dehumanization of their victims. Israel associates itself with the international Jewish community and their tragic history in the same way the United States does with the concept of democracy and freedom or the USSR did with the international proletariat. Every non-Israeli Jew and a good chunk of the Israeli ones could hate Israel with the passion many of my Jewish friends do. They could hate it enough to blot out Israel as well as Haman on Purim. And even then Israel would claim to stand for them and speak for them and that criticism of Israel is antisemitism.
We must maintain our opposition to genocide and our opposition to bigotry based on racial or ethnic lines. We must force the citizens of Israel and its supporters to see the humanity of the starving Palestinians, just as we forced the people of Germany and the world to see the humanity of the Jewish people, and just as we should have done in America any time in the past 300 or so years with our indigenous peoples.
Stop now and separate them in your head. There are Jewish people all over the world that have nothing to do with Israel. There are also Jews that are Israeli who denounce their government.