- cross-posted to:
- shitposting@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- shitposting@lemmy.ml
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As much as I resent religion, I do believe it’s fundamentally a human problem. People everywhere have a tendency to corrupt beliefs in order to justify being assholes to one another.
100%
That being said, dogmatic belief systems, which tend to be common in religion, seem to act as force multipliers in this regard.
Yeah especially if such dogmatic beliefs make people think dumb or unethical stuff is somehow okay.
ITT people missing the point and projecting their own beliefs and values.
This is how people “strawman”. It’s easy to hate on atheists if you just see them all as their asshole members. The truth is that any group has their violent nutjobs and vocal minorities. You can’t just say all Muslims are terrorists just the same as you can’t say feminists are hateful crazies.
The Christian one should be a missionary actually helping people. Christian faith that only exists in church is a false faith
Is that Elon
And ‘assholes’ just appear at random? Nothing in these groups increases or decreases the asshole frequency? Imagine if we thought of all culture that way. Forget about progressive politics changing people’s minds and thereby their behavior. “Some people are just ‘assholes’, what are you gonna do?”
Assuming the probability of assholiness based on culture is how you treat cultures unequally. You fight assholiness in the individual level. You can’t change a culture like that. You can only educate people and they will change their own culture.
Assuming the probability of assholiness based on culture is how you treat cultures unequally.
If you agree that bad ideas can be part of cultures (large or small) to a higher or lesser degree, it follows that some cultures have a higher frequency of people with the need for the individual ‘education’ you’re suggesting.
The best example of an asshole atheist they could find was one making a shitty anti-theist meme, meanwhile the examples of asshole Christians and Muslims are violent
CCP and USSR stamped out religious practice, but go off.
As an Atheist myself, don’t delude yourself into thinking religion is unique in its capacity for horrors. Humans have that capacity, any group we make would also have that capacity.
I was commenting on the examples the meme chose to use. It implies they couldn’t find examples of violent atheists
And by implication pointed out the difficulty in finding one. Unless you literally made a statement about just the types of images they chose with no further intellectual depth, which I mean is possible (I do that shit all the time), it comes with the assumed next statement about there not being violent atheists, or at least there are less violent atheists. So I was talking to that point.
That being said, I’m autistic so I might just missing the point, but I figured that my statement should still be made in case others thought like I did initially. There have been atrocities committed by atheists and there are violent atheists.
They should have used the destruction of temples in Kyiv
It’s been a while since I’ve seen drag! :)
Drag got banned from blahaj and decided to take a step back from Lemmy
hopefully drag is doing better now. Good to see drag back.
(PS. is saying “good seeing ya” be ok with how neopronouns work? or would “drag” instead of “ya” be better?)
“Praise science!” - Southpark
well you can find them on social media hating on women instead. a lot of early atheist youtubers went on to become gamergaters.
or look at a popular one like Dawkins who is busy being a transphobe nowadays. imagine being an atheist and wasting the remainder of your precious and only life trying to make the precious and only life of the most marginalized people in society even worse.
or sam harris who literally defended torture.
Still. Putting Dawkins up against the KKK is a reach.
each of them doing what they’re capable of. the kkk used to have a lot of power. dawkins is just a misogynistic, transphobic nerd. it’s all circumstance. full time hating can lead to a lot of places. for bitches like him it’s mostly trying to get others to do the dirty work.
Mao, Kim jong un, Stalin…
They weren’t killing in the name of atheism though
You can sugar coat it however you like and No-True-Scotsman till the cows come home, but North Korea, iirc, even today, kills, imprisons and tortures more people for their beliefs than any other country.
Believing that atheists are somehow immune from shittiness is absurd. No broad category of people is immune from shittiness.
Again they don’t kill these people cause they believe in god and they are against god, they kill them cause a large group of people who believe in a higher power could undermine their own dictatorial power and control, there’s a reason a lot of these assholes try to elevate their image to a god like being, they want to desperately control the narrative.
“The Soviet Union (1922–1991) had a long history of state atheism, whereby those who were seeking social success generally had to profess atheism and stay away from places of worship; this trend became especially militant during the middle of the Stalinist era, which lasted from 1929 to 1953.”
“The Communist Party engaged in diverse activities such as destroying places of worship, executing religious leaders, flooding schools and media with anti-religious propaganda, and propagated “scientific atheism”.[55][56] It sought to make religion disappear by various means.[57][58] Thus, the USSR became the first state to have as one objective of its official ideology the elimination of the existing religion, and the prevention of the future implanting of religious belief, with the goal of establishing state atheism (gosateizm).”
I’ve went through that personally so I’m very well aware but still I don’t think its very much of the same thing. It’s less due to atheism per se and more to do with the fact that people groups were just dangerous to the regime and this extended way beyond religion.
Finally someone who can think
And when the Cathars, or the Templars were eradicated, or when Protestants and Catholics went to war, do you really think it’s because of sincerely held beliefs regarding their God, or because one group threatened the hegemony and material wealth of the other? In the case of the Protestants, the single most critical doctrine they went after was the Catholic belief that doctrinal authority came in part from the Bible, and in part from the Church; whereas Protestants argued for Sola Scriptura - the belief that doctrinal authority came from the Bible alone. And even the 95 theses clearly had the goal of ending a system of exploitation and financial parasitism by the Catholic church. Welcome to real politics.
None of this does anything to change that cases of church authority are still functionally the same as those of state atheism and anti-theism. In the case of Christian churches, you have the view that only Christianity is the truth and everything else is both the result of the devil, and leads to evil, and therefore all other beliefs are invalid and ultimately must be eradicated.
In the case of these varying state atheist groups you have governments expressing that atheism is the only valid belief system, and again, all others must cease. And anti-theists are explicit about their view of all other religious beliefs being invalid and needing to be eradicated.
If persecutions and executions against religious people by governments that are saying everyone has to be atheist isn’t killing in the name of atheism, then what the fuck is?
Many atheists take part in racism and violence. There was plenty during the Cold War, collapse of Yugoslavia, Gulf War, post-9/11 and both Trump terms.
Yeah but they don’t do it in the name of atheism. Being an atheist doesn’t mean you can’t be a cunt just the same as being religious doesn’t mean you can’t be a cunt.
There are a lot of edgy athiests using all their time attacking trans people these days, because an unfortunate number of them are mainly athiests as a way to hate Muslims. And the ones taking the time to attack trans people have almost all joined the alt right, which has been responsible for a lot of attacks on innocent people.
They may not be killing in the name of atheism, but they have been in the same of “reason” and “defence of women”.
Maybe I’m sheltered but I don’t know of a single atheist attacking trans people. I’m not saying there aren’t any because anyone can be an asshole but I’m not sure if it’s a lot.
Dawkins has decided that he’s culturally christian and that trans people are bad. He’s dragged basically everyone that didn’t leave from the new atheists time with him.
I haven’t seen that. Why would they need to be atheist to hate Muslims? You can do that from anywhere.
You can really change that to “should” instead of “can”.
They literally defend a pedo prophet. I don’t know how exactly they justify that, but I don’t really care. I will actively hate them for this one detail and feel pretty fucking justified.
When you actively go out of your way to be terrible, you intentionally choose to be considered low class until you wake up and choose a decent path.
Just be decent. That’s not a high bar to clear. Muslims and Christians fail this test. Probably a lot of others, but staying on topic of the post context here.
No atheist hates god. How can you hate something you don’t think exists?
Since we are already being unhelpful: Atheist don’t all are unsure about if God exists. Some may believe God does not exist, some don’t care. Some believers might be unsure or don’t care either.
being unsure or uncaring is supposed to be agnosticism, though. atheism is an outright rejection of the possibility. (this is NOT a commentary on if one is more correct than the other.)
People hate on fictional characters all the time though.
I guess you can hate god as a concept. God can be proven to exists in human minds (no esoteric stuff, just psychology and sociology). You can hate this scientific fact and what it means for humankind.
There is a difference between god as a character and God as a concept; the former one is (in my belief) nonexistent, the latter exists as long as his worshipper worship him.
The correct word would be “antitheist”
It’s misotheist
Then you just hate theists
I hate this xD
That’s as may be, but that’s not the word that was used in the meme.
deleted by creator
Tbf, you can think god isn’t “real” while also hating the concept of “god” for being responsible for so much war and division throughout history (among other reasons.)
Well in that case, if a religious person accuses you that you hate their god, it’s still not true. Because that religious person thinks of their god as a real entity, while you hate their concept of god. The target of that hate is not the same.
I dunno. I’m not entirely an atheist (my religion is blasphemy. If the gods exist, they like a target) but I can hate something I don’t think exists. Some of those deities are godsdamned genocidal maniacs and pedophiles.
The bottom-left one for Feminists doesn’t fit. The others are things that were created by their own group, for example, the KKK was created by Christians. That Feminist meme, on the other hand, wasn’t created by feminists but by someone else to mock them.
And the “keep calm and hate god” was clearly created by a theist, not an atheist
Should’ve been a picture of Stalin. And the feminist one should’ve been a picture of J. K. Rowling
That would have been better yes
Good point. Why would an atheist hate something which doesn’t exist. The whole meme is bad.
Many atheists “hate god” as in hate the idea of a god. I can see atheist making that as a meme and I know some edgy atheists post that kind of shit all the time, which tbh is corny as hell.
The word god is used as a stand-in for religion. A synecdoche.
Yeah, I could see it being from an antitheist if it was more along of the lines of “fuck all gods” or something along those lines. That’s operating under the assumption that all antitheists are atheists, which may not be true.
… Someone who is a theistic antitheist sounds like an interesting person.
allow me to introduce you to misotheism. my favourite take is that of famed mathematician Paul Erdös, who referred to god as the ‘SF’, which stood for ‘supreme fascist’, who he said horded all the best mathematical proofs for himself.
I vote OP take the meme down and repost it with Shiela Jeffries or Camille Paglia replacing the feminist…
The number of assholes calling themselves feminists vastly outnumber the actual feminists. They have lost control of the word.
Most feminists just don’t call themselves feminists anymore because doing so makes you very likely to get harassed
I prefer to call myself egalitarian
Well they’re not really the same thing, feminism is a social movement with the goal with furthering equality. Egalitarianism just means you think everyone’s equal, doesn’t mean you actually care enough to make that a reality.
I disagree and as far as I can tell, so does Wikipedia.
TBF I think it’d be risky to use legit examples for that panel
TERFs maybe?
My thought exactly. Most of the “feminists” who do fit that stereotype ended up becoming Feminist Appropriating Reactionary Transphobes.
Ahahahahahaa FARTs
Good point, pic of JK Rowling would fit there I’d say.
Or the “all men are rapists” crowd, one of the two tbh.
Every woman I know has experienced at least sexual harrasment. Most have experienced SA or rape. Even if a man hasn’t done it, he will probably stick by his shitty mates who do or will still stay friends with them because awkwardness and bravery is harder for them than silent compliance.
If its “not all men” then it is certainly all women.
I’m picking that bear over you.
I’m sorry you have a hard life.
That’s just womanhood
Can’t say I’ve ever come across one of those
There is a lot of overlap, TERFs usually have a problem with trans women because they deeply mistrust men. The “R” is there for a reason.
I have to say personally I surround myself with wonderful and kind men so it makes sense that I’ve never met someone in real life who so adamantly hates all of them.
I understand being wary of men for statistical reasons, for example I won’t get into a situation where I’m in a room alone with a man I don’t know well, but that’s not to say I assume every man I meet is a rapist.
Hell, hot take incoming (this one is controversial): we can even acknowledge that a lot of men have raped people without knowing it for many years because of the way they were socialized with media that encouraged pestering for sexual attention. A lot of men I know are guilty of this but I think it’s important that that can be redeemable if they recognize that it happened and have since changed their behaviour. This seems to be an extremely common experience and I wouldn’t go as far as to call them rapists because that was not their intention and they are usually horrified when they realize it.
Sorry for the tangent, I do feel like this isn’t talked about enough.
we can even acknowledge that a lot of men have raped people without knowing it
I wouldn’t go as far as to call them rapists because that was not their intention
I see what you’re getting at, but I really wouldn’t use that word in any context where there might have been, for example, any power dynamic or some form of coercion. I believe that keeping it reserved for situations where violence or significant coercion are involved is better for everyone, especially the victims.
Doesn’t mean using mild coercion/emotional blackmail/pestering/shaming/… is okay behaviour, not at all, it’s just that saying no/leaving won’t usually do much beyond change the relationship between the people involved. Talking about that is fine, good and needed, using “rape” to describe it will probably shut down any conversation before it can even begin, though.
I’d also argue that that sort of behaviour is something both men and women engage in, maybe in different ways but, well, the expectation on men is to always be sexually available, so it sometimes becomes an issue when they are not. Mutual respect and understanding really are the most important things in a relationship, both participants are fully realized human beings, not just “the girlfriend/wife” or “the boyfriend/husband”. But people seem to forget that sometimes and I don’t know what can be done about that.
Assholes of our worser nature?
Also, Nye isn’t an athiest. He’s a devoteé of Cervinas.
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actually dangerous white supremacist
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guy in a ninja costume with a knife
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weird meme
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completely made up stereotype
1/4: do better next time!
Misandrists exist, but most are harmless. Social media just does a good job of amplifying them like all outrage.
No it doesn’t. You just don’t want to admit that you benefit from misogyny.
You realize that both misogyny and misandry can exist at the same time in different people?
I don’t know why you feel like you know me well enough to make that claim.
The claim that there is such a thing as misandry places them on equal footing and minimises the scale of cultural misogyny.
No it doesn’t. The world isn’t that binary. That’s a twitter mindset.
Read some Judith Butler or Angela Davis
I’m not doing homework for you. Why don’t you explain it here?
It also doesn’t matter. There are encyclopedias worth of work explaining every opinion you can think of. Thing is, I’ve dealt with misandrists. One was a guy so far into the “men cause all the problems” territory that the women of that friend group had to have an intervention because he was being increasingly condescending to even women because he didn’t think they could fight their own fights.
Honestly, the biggest issue that misandrists cause is being used as a poster child for misogynists for their impression of feminists. Mostly irrelevant because misogynists don’t need evidence or reason for their mindsets. Like I said, most misandrists are harmless, but they do exist.
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American war propaganda poster for illustrating feminism, that’s certainly a choice
Yeah and “we can do it,” until the men come back home and take the jobs back.
Reminds me a of a joke "Why do people in North Dakota spend so much time at the bar?
Because Colonel Custer told them to hang out there until he got back."
Equality achieved in mid 90s. (adjusting for voluntary life choices of parenting full time) Much more men than women dropped out of labour force since.
Well, technically, it was never equal numbers and the gap between has remained the same, but you could argue that maternity and also elderly gender disparity contribute to that, yeah.
How many men died over there though. Those jobs became vacant
Honestly your comment triggers the fuck out of me. Are you saying women had it worse in ww2? lol should men returning from war not be entitled to their job back?
To explain your downvotes.
Women were encouraged to join the work force on top of all of the parenting/wifely duties they were saddled with for generations. This was a lot of work, but it also provided a glimpse into financial independence and equal placement in the workplace for the first time.
But when the war was over, women were encouraged to jump right back into the kitchen.
should men returning from war not be entitled to their job back
There are many jobs that need to be done to make society work. There are plenty of jobs at home that they could have taken.
I feel as if that’s kind of fair given that the men were the ones who had to die without any choice in the matter, no?
Also I didn’t know I was downvoted as I have that turned off lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Bill#Problems
Except a lot of men who fought over there were rewarded with returning back to the bottom rung of the socioeconomic ladder.
Status quo was maintained. Women and people of color were promised opportunity and reward for helping with the war effort, but largely didn’t get it.
hi. proud asshole here. destroy all abrahamic religions for the sake of humanity.
Nothing has done more harm than religion.
Pollution and by extension capitalism. Why only harm select groups of people, when you can harm the entire future of all people.
Patriarchy! It’s the father of both capitalism and totalitarian religion.
I dont get it, which minority am I supposed to blame for all my problems now?
Billionaires
the assholes
Unfortunately, they are no longer a minority.
How many assholes have we got on this planet anyhow?
Few billion
You’re right, Mexicans do suck
Put the /s on, we need it these days.
PP_BOY_ is amazed that the Mexicans he hired can operate a vacuum cleaner
The rich.
The 1%
3 of these are real examples things the people on the right did, the last is a meme made to make fun of feminists. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a level of feminism that goes too far, I just have yet to see an example of this in real life. There’s something about women in general that makes society eager dismiss them offhand as silly and ridiculous whenever they have opinions.
That something is patriarchy.
There are some women like that in real life actually
So you’ve never met a TERF in real life?
I think the term mostly refers to bigots. Most “TERFs” aren’t even radfems, they just use “protecting women” as an excuse for their bigotry.
Terrible implementation of a decent idea, try again
There are in fact assholes of every stripe and it is good to be aware of those within your own “camps”
