Parisians took to the streets in a massive demonstration with slogans and banners against France’s involvement in the Ukrainian conflict, as well as in favor of the country’s withdrawal from the European Union and NATO.
In addition to numerous signs with the word “Frexit,” others could be seen that read: “Macron, we will not die for Ukraine!”
💬 “I am Russia, I am France, I am Ukraine. Stop European state terrorism. The European Union kills. Paris — Frexit,” read another banner.
The march was organized by the Patriots party.
Video link -> https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1999909144657113088/vid/avc1/1920x1080/-_-dFzdxM1sem5Xh.mp4
Source -> https://xcancel.com/SputnikMundo/status/1999927805191037023#m
Source from France -> https://xcancel.com/f_philippot/status/1999894336142540894#m
This protest is organized by a far right party tho :(
Strange bedfellows in times of crisis
I believe that’s where the “critical” part of “critical support” comes into play.
And what is the German left doing? Supporting Israeli genocide and shutting down nuclear plants and aligning themselves with the pro-war government.
Until the German left gets its shit together and sheds its chauvinistic character we will continue to see these odd contradictions as pressure boils and needs a release
That is kind of the point I have been making the last couple of days.
The far right kind of has a point - hear me out please.
If you read wretched of the earth, you will understand (hopefully) that national and cultural consciousness and resistance to globalism is a great concept.
The alt right uses this to its advantage because it is a great concept. To be proud of ones nation is a concept systematically deleted from our minds (especially in germany) by the globalists and we need to get on board with the idea that the concept of being proud of ones nation and the people in it is not the same as racism. the imperialist left (both ultras and libs) uses this to further their cause.
From what I have read so far, it has always been the right wingers, the nationalists who have started the revolt. Our job is to divert that attention afterwards to a socialist revolution instead of a nationalist one.
You aren’t misunderstanding Fanon but you are applying his theory in the wrong place. France is not fighting Colonialism. The french already have a strong national identity. In a Colonial situation the culture has been broken nationalism is a easy method of agitation. France is imperialists. The reactionary nationalist movement upholds the nationalist bourgeoisie who are already in control.
Thats an interesting point. Where can I read that i can only apply this theory ony in one place? Because in the case of germany, this doesnt fit. The german worker is in a shitty situation for years and has been alienated from both his culture and his work for a long time. Then there is “the left” party that ignores systemic issues for non systemic, superficial issues, and of course that is why people turn reactionary. None of this remedies their situation and only makes getting through the day harder.
The interesting idea that i floated here a couple days back is “socialism with german characteristics”. One could think of digging at the roots of long overridden german culture (by white and christian supremacy as well as consumerism) and rebuild the national pride on the basis of a socialist system and without racism. First examples would be to reintroduce sütterlin in schools (which is different from frakturschrift which the nazis used) and put a focus on fusing national identity (in all people, not some race science bullshit) with the communist ideology.
I cant speak for france because i’m not there. Please keep that in mind. It would also be stupid of me to assume anything about french people as i have been there once for a weekend and have no deep knowledge in stark comprarison to gernany.
Edit: i got triggered and worded my answer too hard to understand and not precise enough. Changed for clarity.
No theory fits all times and places.
In Wretched of the Earth Fanon isn’t ever talking about a proletarian revolution. It is only about anti-colonialist revolution. And he isn’t laying out a step by step guide he is explaining what has happened in Algeria and other anti-colonial struggles.
Liberals saying those things. Leftists understand that the primary contradiction is class.
People are reactionary to start with they don’t turn reactionary. What makes a person reactionary is the fear of change, the desire to maintain the status quo or return to a previous version of the status quo (often a fictional past).
It sounds like you are trying to reinvent National bolshivism. Do I need to remind you how the communists working with Nationalist worked out last time in germany?
There is no german culture without white supremacy christianity and capitalism because germany is only 150 years old. Forget culture, you can’t use culture to bind a political project together because it is an ever changing thing. Defining what is and is not part of your culture is like nailing down your shadow. Culture is a construct of idealism not materialism.
Nationalism is a false consciousness, all it does is distract from class consciousness. Its fine if you can turn nationalists against a bigger foe in a colonial situation but they will always betray socialists because the colonizer will cut them a deal.
If that deal has already been made (like how the bourgeoisie of Germany have sold out the workers for US$) the only thing you can do is try to raise class consciousness so that workers will fight the bourgeoisie who share their nationality.
Then you don’t know the German left unfortunately.
That is debatable and depends a lot on the “nurture” aspect of an individual or society.
There is a strong regional culture in Germany that can be better used and is currently exploited by the right to woo people into their arms. Culture might be an ever changing thing but so is Marxism cuz it’s not dogmatic. And if culture is ever changing, then it can shed its oppressing weight of Christianity and Capitalism as well.
I think Germany is very far away from their class consciousness to be raised. And if someone tries that a bit, like the left party at the beginning of this year, they turn into a very “perfomative” left idealism shortly afterwards that further alienates Marxists. If we as Marxists in the West - who very rarely every “studied” Marxism as someone in the CCCP did or currently China or other Marxist countries did, but only read some books and got together in spaces like these - want to get out of our big heads and ivory towers, we need to actually speak to the proletariat in their own terms and language. And culture, traditions, “going through the motions” are sadly a great way to do that because we’re humans and because the proletariat is reactionary currently.
Anyone who doesn’t see Class as the primary contradiction is not a leftist.
There are many small regional cultures in Germany but there is no unifying culture, apart from maybe Vergangenheitsbewältigung.
The tactics of marxism change but the strategy and goal never does. A cultural taboo can change in less than a generation, there is nothing permanent in culture. The culture of Germany will not shed capitalist ideas until generations after the revolution. You cant do things the other way around because the capitalist control the intellectual and cultural means of production.
Germany is very far from proletarian revolution and it has a severe deficit of class consciousness like all western nations. You don’t counter that by choosing to foster false consciousness because that will end up with a false revolution like the 3rd reich.
It is our job to raise class consciousness because doing anything else will not give us correct results. We do need to reach out to workers but we don’t do it by indulging in nationalism or identity politics. We stand with those oppressed by capitalism whoever they are but until the reactionaries and nationalists are feeling the weight of their oppression they will not listen to us regardless of whether we appeal to their culture or not. We know exactly what happens you mix reactionary ideas into socialism.
I largely agree with you and I think this entire discussion comes down to praxis. Let me please provide my thoughts below. Happy to see your thinking and keep the exchange going.
That would currently be 95+% of Germany, including much of the “Die Linke” in Germany.
Again, fully agree here and we see how the Vergangenheitsbewältigung is being distorted by capitalists against Palestinians and anyone criticising Israel in general.
If the tactics of Marxism change, why not exploring the idea of applying Marxist praxis in the direction where we speak the language of the proletariat? If we can’t raise class consciousness (unless I’m mistaken here, but for Germany this is definitely not the case.), neither can we do it through culture, then how do we get people mobilised?
A Devil’s Advocate would say what have been tried by communists in Germany, or the capitalist core, doesn’t work, either. Trying to raise class consciousness is apparently not working and if this was the solution, then you are going right with the “Die Linke” who advocates for educating the masses only and is becoming something like the Greens were 30 years ago. By those standards, we always lose against capital, cuz they dictate what people learn. Again, being the Devil’s Advocate, Lenin would still wait for the revolution if he wanted to raise class consciousness only.
Of course, correct Theory, but how does that look like in praxis? Because currently, the right is wooing the proletariat into their arms, not the left. And using culture as a vehicle to educate and mobilise people can be a valid way, many socialist countries did and still do that.
Even the program of the KPD in 1918 talks of culture twice (https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/geschichte/deutsch/kpd/1918/programm.htm). One example being in their very first paragraph, as “cultural duty”: “On November 9th, workers and soldiers shattered the old regime in Germany. On the battlefields of France, the bloody delusion of Prussian saber-wielding world domination had crumbled. The criminal gang that had ignited the global conflagration and driven Germany into a sea of blood had reached the end of its rope. The people, deceived for four years, who in the service of the Moloch had forgotten their cultural duty, their sense of honor, and their humanity, who had allowed themselves to be used for every atrocity, awoke from their four-year paralysis—before the abyss.”
Its not that it isn’t possible to raise class consciousness, it is that agitation is very slow going and likely you will likely never see the results even if they do happen. Agitation is planting a seed of class consciousness and it can take years to sprout and only if the soil it falls in is properly prepared by suffering and exploitation. Its not easy because the material conditions aren’t ripe but that doesn’t mean it can’t work or wont work. It takes time but the capitalists can’t help but push the conditions into our favor. (due to the tendency for the rate of profits to fall, the need for capitalists to exploit workers increases over time.)
You are expressing a fear of losing to the fascists which is very understandable but sadly I don’t think that can be helped. For most of the imperialist nations the revolution is likely on the other side of fascism. Its like what George Jackson says in Blood in my Eye:
Revolution is born from suffering and exploitation. The people need to feel they have nothing to lose, that risking death is only a little worse than things going on as they are. Fascism offers “easy” “solutions” before the ethnic majority are at the breaking point. They will likely try fascism before risking everything on socialism. If you want to be effective maybe forget German working class people and go talk to immigrants?
You also seem to be expressing a feeling of urgency which is again understandable but it sounds like you are allowing that urgency to push you into making compromises or trying to get the ball rolling before knowing how to get it going in the right direction. You are thinking too big.
Communism will win, regardless of anything you do or anything that happens. Even if humanity goes extinct the next intelligent species will eventually discover upon scientific socialism just like they will discover the laws of gravity. So just take a deep breath and do what you can, Agitation. “capitalism is the cause of all your suffering” tell anyone who will listen. “Your problem is not ‘the Jews’ or immigrants it is the billionaires.” Mostly you will be ignored but if you say it a thousand times that’s a thousand chances to make an impact.
You aren’t going to single-handedly come up with a new theory of Marxism that turns Germany over to socialism overnight. Start by joining or forming a Marxist study group. If you can’t organize 2 or 3 people to read Marx and Lenin together developing a new theory of reaching the German working class is just a pipe dream.
Thank you for at least taking the time to explain this instead of turning completely nuts like some other comrades are, sadly.
So, again. Dialectical materialism is not about explaining to the other person why they are wrong but understanding their point of view as well as their material circumstances, forming an antithesis to a thesis and coming up with synthesis.
Not one person has shown the respect to actually apply DM to this obviously critical problem as people are starting to dogpile on a comrade who has been very active and constructive for months, neither does anyone intervene or anything. this situation is a bancruptcy declaration of lemmygrad imo.
That said, let me form a thesis you can attack if you have the on the ground knowledge of germany:
And now a couple clarifications:
People are not turning reactionary in this thread. You speak very arrogantly and authoritatively while making very basic errors. People are reacting to your egotism they are not “turning reactionary.” I’ve seen how other people are talking to you and it is well deserved. I can’t tell if you are a really good troll or a really confused comrade.
Dialectical materialism is a personal process for understanding changes. It is not a method of debate. When you start with a flawed thesis you cannot perform dialectical materialism correctly. You don’t get to throw dialectical materialism around like a shield from criticism. When someone points out an error in your thesis you can not just change your thesis and keep the same synthesis. If you add salt instead of sugar don’t expect it to come out as cake.
I will say this again Fanon does not apply to germany or france. Fanon writes from perspective of the colonized. There are plenty of books about communist revolution in the developed nations. Marx seemed to think that is where socialism would come from but he was wrong.
It is not Chauvinism to understand that different societies require different forms of socialism due to their different material conditions. The difference between China and Germany is that China’s communist revolution started in a semi-colonial semi-feudal society. That is what “Socialism with Chinese characteristics” means it means socialism adapted to the material conditions of China.
There is no line between “national consciousness” and nationalism. just like there is no difference between class consciousness and classism. The one is gives birth to the other. You cannot use nationalism or national conciseness as a basis for socialism because it is by definition exclusive and supremacist. It is a false consciousness.
Other comrades are turning “nuts” (ableism by the way) because you are trying to reconstruct National Socialism in Germany from first principles. Someone suggesting creating a fascist project is going to get attacked. Stop suggesting it.
Nationalism is only a tool for the progressives in a very narrow set of circumstances when the national bourgeois interests are opposed to the international capitalists and imperialists. That is not the case in Germany, where the national bourgeois interests are aligned with the empire.
Even then it’s a very temporary and fraught alliance. Nationalism as an ideology should never be promoted, only temporary alliance with the national bourgeoisie in conditions of decolonial wars of independence.
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i reported this because you are massively out of line.
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And you sound like a chauvinist who is trying to beat a comrade into submission. You should consider leaving grad.
My man, you’re the one who’s punching left, attacking so-called “woke” culture (like gender-inclusive language). The distance from your argument and those of A"C"P Twitter is virtually zero.
You’re my second block on this whole server. Be proud. I have not seen a person more unable to apply dialectical materialism on here, ever.
Btw. you’re using liberalist arguments. Punching left (against ultras) is totally our style and “woke” is not interesting to us at all. We support those most oppressed out of being human, not out of being woke. The liberal left is the one supporting e.g. migrants because it is on vogue to do so but will immediately turn around and use chauvinism against anyone. Same as the chauvinism you’re using with me.
And, the arguments of the alt right and marxists are often the same, the afd very often has the same viewpoints as marxists because they are demagogues. The liberal leftists are the only ones who would vote against a beneficial law just to not support the alt right. That is dysfunctional ultra behavior. It is against lenins teachings. Lenin wrote a whole book about this stupidity.
That said. Good luck with that attitude. I’m out.
This is the same justification Haz uses for MAGA communism.
You do realize that this is a marxist platform. please use DM to poke holes in my theory instead of reactionism.
The value of “national pride” really depends dramatically on the nation-state project we’re talking about, ethnic background, and so on. For example, the US conception of national pride is based on being a genocidal settler state. There isn’t really such a thing, now or in history, of the US as not being that, so national pride in the USian context circles back to being proud of being a colonizer and justifying everything that follows from that.
I don’t know as much about Germany to speak on it in detail, but it’s my understanding that national pride was a significant part of the fuel behind the rise of Nazi Germany. If this is the case, it makes it very problematic for German socialists to turn to that. Let me be clear though, ethnic cultural distinctions can be a different thing. If there are ethnic Germanic peoples who have an identity there to care about (and if it is one that is distinct from the institution of white supremacy or other such garbage), that might be something to pay attention to, but that does not necessarily have anything to do with Germany itself as a nation in its current form. Ethnic identities aren’t necessarily the same thing as nation-states.
Where exceptions tend to be made for this in the socialist context is when we’re talking about colonized or imperialized peoples who are having their identity (often an ethnic one) crushed under the colonizer or the imperialist and so it can become actually necessary to embrace ethnic identity and culture in a form backed up by organized state power, in order to shake off the embedded colonial/imperial elements, else they face a kind of erasure. Germany, as far as I know, is not like this at all. They are part of the western empire and the closest they ever had to an alternative was the “East Germany” socialist project that fell. Their culture, like many western ones, is subsumed by the institution of “whiteness”; and until that is shaken off, they cannot begin to contend with what ethnic identity looks like beyond it.
I’ll reply to the top-level comment but I read the entire conversation + continuation on matrix. We will be taking care of unhelpful and bad faith comments but I also think your current point of view is not entirely fleshed out. I say this to be helpful because you ask for answers based in diamat but your comments show idealist thinking (specifically looking at the superstructure rather than starting at the material base). I don’t want to admonish you for it but I also want to get it out of the way but it gives the impression that you will only accept the best of the best rebuttal and then can refuse anything that doesn’t live to your specific standard.
We have to look at what was quantitatively and qualitatively different in colonial Algeria vs. modern-day Germany - third law of dialectics, quantitative change turns to qualitative change. When we look at the history of a nation or state (two different things of course), we’re not just looking at the culture and the local customs, because these are expressions of their material base. We’re looking at how the class struggle evolved and was shaped through time periods, which ultimately has bearing on the present situation. “The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living” as we said.
What were the social relations like in colonial Algeria? What was its mode of production, and thus how was production happening socially? What were its various classes, and which were exploiters and exploited (class relations)? What superstructure was put in place to enforce those relations, what did it look like?
And the same questions for modern day Germany. Algeria was not only colonized it was settled because its proximity did not require local comprador for extraction - thus its institutions and infrastructure reflected that. Algeria was ruled by a French General Governor appointed from France directly, first under the Department of War during the conquest and then appointed by the Prime Minister. Native Algerians, who became indigenous under this social relation (creating a settled class), were not allowed to speak their language. They had to learn French, use the French calendar, observed French bank holidays instead of their own (e.g. Christmas was an official day off but not Eid), and basically work in the French manner. Settlers became rich in Algeria, opening businesses of their own (grapevines were a favorite) + of course French state-owned enterprises being implanted in Algeria.
This is what allows us to say colonial algeria and modern day germany are materially different in their base and thus have a different superstructure and different state character - but we have to look at the totality and not the specifics, another important factor of dialectics (though often overlooked and thus often invoked but it really put things in perspective for me) which you omitted from your argumentation. Germany is part of the imperial core even if, like all of western europe, they happily obey the US. They are not settled and not a colony, and don’t have a comprador bourgeoisie. It’s not my intention to make a class analysis of Germany here because this is getting too long but it could be made applying the same principles.
But I wanted to say this because I find your arguments wanting for more, and as identifying more with the right than the marxists because they don’t really indicate anything marxist - using the verbiage of the far-right is one thing but one must also present convincing materialist arguments to differentiate them from the right. I can’t say “ban all immigrants” only to then clarify “oh only the bourgeois immigrants, not the others” after people raise eyebrows. If I’m talking to marxists I need to be able to explain materially, from the start, that I am talking about the bourgeoisie (and then explain why I said bourgeois immigrants instead of just the bourgeoisie).
In my case I consider there is no need for moderation on your comments in this discussion yet, and like I said I and other admins went through the rest of the comment chain and did cleaning up where applicable.
I agree that my thoughts need more fleshing out and I will try and do this on my own so that I can work this out dialectically. Thank you for the well worded and imo construcrive feedback.
That said, I would like to point out that i never asked for the best. I asked to be treated with dignity and respect, as i treat everyone who happens to have a grad account by default and even outsiders as long as they keep their liberalism in check.
My language (using words such as globalism) may have had a much more problematic impact than i intended. I didnt want it to be problematic at all but i obviously lacked the words to explain this in a more understandable way.
Thank you for explaining, here and on matrix in a respectful fashion. That is both what i ask of comrades and what i show comrades in return.
On the topic:
My idea was maybe a very detail oriented one. Since reading a ton of theory helped me understand a lot of complex issues I thought i might be able to tackle a different kind of animal.
My idea was never to use nationalism or chauvinism or racism in particular.
The idea was basically: we are socialists, we plan to implement the dictatorship of the proletariat in any given country BUT we should also try to get away from the liberalist culture as well. Meaning, for germany especially, we should for example envision a city like beijing, beautiful highrises, lightshows and whatnot, but also - same as beijing - we should have traditional houses in between and we should be careful to preserve the cultural aspects, same as china does in its different parts of the country. Same with teaching traditional german scripture and language/dialects in schools.
As i said, i will try to work this out in more detail. It feels like this is a huge black hole in most leftist (and now i include marxists) circles.
I do understand that this is a sensitive topic. I do think though that it shouldnt be and that we should work together to help each other understand instead of what happened here.
I appreciate the comment/criticism as well. I think I understood what you meant instinctively, and also because English is my native language, and because obviously, having US military bases in Germany, cultural transfer is going to happen between Germans and USians, despite not necessarily having direct or daily interactions.
It’s unfortunate that “globalists” and other neutral words and symbols are so often appropriated by fascists so that we can’t use them anymore when that is the most appropriate word, otherwise. It’s a pita to have to always type out “multinational corporations” or “states who seek to bully other states into compliance with their agendas, ideals, and currency hegemony,” and here I ask for appropriate terms for appropriated terms such as “globalist,” “non-semitic DNA, white supremacist, Zionist Jew,” and probably a cargo shipload of other unintentionally, but deeply offensive words or phrases I’ve used myself, not as dog whistles, but from sheer ignorance of more appropriate concise terms; but also it has me pause and search myself for liberal brainworms because it wasn’t that many years since I stopped conflating “Jew” with “Zionist” (maybe two decades, consciously, less subconsciously, it was multigenerational subconscious conditioning, in my considered but humble opinion), for example. Plus in certain regions, both Germans and USians seem much more direct than others from the same regions, perhaps because diplomacy is too often a nice way to hide nasty meanings, such as dog whistling, and probably for myself, some degree of divergence, from whatever causes I’ve discussed elsewhere. In interpersonal conversations, it causes un/intentional interpersonal conflict, in international conversations, it causes wars, regardless of whatever diplomatic terms the intentional aggressors call it, but that’s no reason not to seek a bit more refinement in our conversations, I think. I’d never want to stifle or derail actual learning conversations.
Thank you. I really appreciate this. <3
I have learned a lot in the past two days.
You are welcome, comrade. That’s why we are here, to learn and grow together. Luckily we have siblings more developed to help us along the way, sometimes more gently, other times more severe, but hopefully always with the aim of improving ourselves and each other, in thinking and speaking.
I also think, speaking for myself, I tend to get more hurt and/or defensive when my personal 3D life is chaotic and find the cliché but appropos acronym HALT helpful (even if I don’t always remember in the moment) helpful, perhaps you are familiar? If not, it means if during the course of conversation or events I find myself becoming upset, if I am hungry (or hurting), angry, lonely, or tired, I need to address those things before responding to things that can reasonably be put off until I’ve addressed the hunger, physical or emotional pain, anger (which is often a mask for fear or pain), and tiredness.
My best to you, and onward!
🫡
Also, “globalists” is an antisemitic dogwhistle.
if you read my other comments you will see that the whole west would call me an antisemite, which I’m proud of. Not that I have the smallest issue with jewish people. I’m violently pro palestine and anti zionist.
The reason I used “globalism” is because I dont know a better word for the people trying to make all people in the world of the same consumerist fabric. I also know that the “jewish world conspiracy” is real, just without jews. There is a (near) worldwide cabal trying to subdue the rest. It consists of capitalists.
From the tons of theory I have read so far, my conclusion is that germany and the US arent only the imperial core and the greatest vasall state. They are capitalist colonies. That perfectly explains why things are so vile everywhere and it takes out the chauvinist view of the german and american working class.
Well idk about you but I am 1000% Anti zionist and people calling me an anti semite is bs, but i aint “proud of being called an anti semite”.
Wh- huh? What? Dont fucking say that ffs, no matter how much you clarify it later, its not normal to say like at all. Just say “jewish world conspiracy ISNT real.” Then you continue.
I get your point, revolutionaries have to utilize nationalism and the bolsheviks, the chinese etc all have used it because it has proven very effective. But you have to create your versions of culture, not the capitalist created/influenced culture. Remember culture isnt a monolith like someone else here said, you can always change it to whatever is best for your cause.
Edit the criticism you made about german left- you criticised liberalism, no marxist says shit like “If you are a M*N you are inherently EVIL!”
I have been met with intense reactionism so far and my stance has hardened therefore. that is a normal and healthy reaction to undialectical attack.
Of course I know that the conspiracy theories of non marxists are bullshit but they are always one inch from the truth exactly to derail a legitimate grievance into dysfunctionality.
The issue here is that the comrades have not used DM and some even have used vile personality assassination attempts. I will not report them because its not systematic yet. I will keep an eye on it though. It is not acceptable for lemmygrad to have users attack other users personally and undialectically for disagreeing on a theory topic that should have been resolved through questions and sincere attempts to understand the other side.
Being proud of being called and antisemite by zionists is not a crime. I also think that jews who arent anti zionists are a problem, sue me. Its the same with germans who arent anti fascists or americans who arent anti imperialists or christians who arent anti christian supremacy.
I have made countless posts and comments since I arrived here, i opened a community and am posting regularly and also accepting criticism, same as doing self crit when applicable.
I dont think it is a me problem. Mostly this is a misunderstanding combined with some (german) comrades who gave a kneejerk reaction to “muh antinationalism” which is essentially reactionary bourgoise leftism.
And the german “left” is not marxist. The german left is bourgois left liberalism or ultraleftism. Please dont assume what I meant but ask instead.
No they are 100% wrong and not close to the truth, since their conspiracies arent based on materialism. You can get an anti semite to be an anti muslim or black as well because they are similar, but not “anti bourgeoisie” in the marxist way. They might say “I hate the rich” then follow it with “because they are all jews trying to genocide the whites”
(Не смейтесь!)
I will report you if you call me out for nazi propaganda!! (Не шутите!)
“Jews Control the World! But they dont though its the bourgeoisie” (its not, because the bourgeoisie dont control the world the way anti semites think jews do, not to mention the anti semites do hate the rich as well! therefore what you said IS anti semitic, but ig aint nobody care?)
Yeah it aint cool either. I wouldnt wear “anti semite” as a badge of honor. Ffs. Yeah I agree that jewish supremacist jews are bad, doesnt give anyone the right to call me an anti semite for it. For the next paragraph, lets say we are “Proudly anti White, christian, semite!” And see how mnay people support us.
Ok then resign from being an infiltrator
Which is exaclty the point of saying they are one inch from the truth. They point out what is going wrong and arrive at ludacris reasons and solutions from that. But they do point out that they “hate the rich”.
The rest of your comments in general is just ragebait.
No they arent one inch awayyyyyyy the only way they are similar is “this small group controls everything” and if you dont know the difference, if i type it here it’ll take me like 2 pages of essay u want me to point out the 20 000 elephants in the room???
If this was reddit i would say “u/askgrok define intellectual dishonesty” cuz u aint just throw away like half my ciritism away like that and have any intellectual integrity, considering their comment had misrepresentations of fascist and revolutionary ideas everywhere.
Capitalists. The word you’re looking for is capitalists.
Yes, i guess that is correct. It doesnt satisfy my need to be specific but i guess that is indeed a me thing. :)
“Late-stage capitalism?” I’m literally reading this and you’re parroting the exact same talking points Caleb Maupin made about using “globalism?”
have you read “wretched of the earth” and “imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism”?
Also, I’m not parroting. We dont attack comprades here.
I was not meaning to attack you as a person, I was attacking your talking points as an exact replica of the ones I heard from Caleb Maupin.
I wouldnt say its “systematically deleted” -> the language veers very heavily into alt-right territory. German nationalism was considered “provincial” and hillbilly-like by liberals and nationalism was rerouted through the EU (Judeo-Christian humanism liberal values, etc…) and german colonial ambitions through israhell (german media does depict the Jewish population of 1930s germany as “de-ethnic” and basically ethnically german so to make an association with the Zionist settler program as a para-german settler program)
That is why its considered counterculture especially in east germany - but using german nationalism which has long been removed from its progressive roots in 1848 and is mostly white supremacist in nature is not the answers - Its very much the failure of Sahra Wangenknecht. Espeically worse if you think you can divert after a nationalist revolution to a socialist one. This even mirrors the KPD slogan “After Hitler - us” (I mean they were right, but it was the soviets that saved their asses)
i kinda get your points. have you read wretched of the earth yet?
yes. In fact I became a ML through being an anti-imperialist first.
Neat. The book suggests vastly different from your point though.
As is pointed out by fanon, people need a connection to what came before them. This also completely slots into the situation in china where national roots are praised, not frowned upon.
I would go as far and say the only reason why you cant say "germans from 200 years ago were my ancestors and they did cool things is because it has been undermined by supremacist ideology. This even suggests deep rooted racism to allow chinese people their 3000 year history and say that germans can not have their germanic roots. from that view it is clear how a hitler got to power. people didnt know about their ancestors because instead of “this is german heritage” it was used as: the only thing you need to know is youre christian and white and therefore better. fanon explains this as even the colonist being forced to play his role.
It also slots wonderfully into the situation in germany where people thankfully accept the alt rights shallow “nationalism”. Fanon describes the needed ingredient “national and cultural consciousness”.
And yet I did not deny fanon at all. I said that the german nationalism of 1848 which was progressive in nature, is not the german nationalism of 1890 or 1914 or 1933 or 1990 or 2024 - which is white supremacist in character as is the EU nationalism. What the afd is doing is not reinvent a german nationalist idenity based on a german national character divorced from white supremacy or restore to lost germanic roots destroyed by rome, the church and then enclosure via industrialization. But according to your plan the communists in germany should support/ride the coattails of the afd & fascists to then turn around and say to the working class “no no actually racism is bad now”? You dont get to trick working class people into falling for marxism. Again this is literally what Sahra Wangenknecht tried to do and look where she is now? The left hasnt advanced in germany at all - it only got weaker and more ideologically impotent.
Because postcolonial china whose culture was seen as inferior (while german culture was never inside germany) is now nationalistic? China and Germany are two different beasts, which historical materialistic context dictate that its nationalism has a different character. Germany is literally currently the second/third greatest helper of genocide in the world, you know palestinans are still dying, with its own colonial empire in the Balkans and Central + Eastern Europe and instead of challenging the chauvinism that enables this, you propose we tell the working class that “lets sing all erika together because we are doing anti-imperialism” or “greek workers are the true oppressors of germany because they forced schäuble to do austerity inside germany to bail them out”? What you propose seems more like desperation because the culture in germany is swing hard to the right and workers dont suddenly flock to germany’s communists.
Besides the german nationalist identity divorced from white christian supremacy doesnt not exist anymore, the GDR was the last structure to try to reinvent it, because it already had the material circumstances to actually create such a thing - it did not manage it before socialism, and even then its legacy is a fairly large chunk of east germans today dont see the east germany as an third worldist non-chauvinistic society but as a society that was “untainted” by queerness, foreigners, and was orderly in nature.
Funny enough, the GDR had the “Kulturbund” which openly celebrated German heritage with slogans like “defense of culture is the defense of peace”. It was openly neutral to any party and openly anti-fascist.
I wonder, if socialist countries in the past, with the CCCP on the forefront, openly celebrated the cultural heritage of the proletariat, why shouldn’t we be able to do something similar, applied to today’s perspective. If the proletariat yearns for the past in the imperial core because the upheavels of capitalism are so hard to bear, why should we speak a language different to them? Why shouldn’t we celebrate regional cultures especially in the core, and make it openly antifascist? Sometimes it sounds like that the proletariat in the core is not being exploited as well.
Many voters of the AfD are not ideological Nazis, unlike their party members. But they need a mental or ideological crutch to help them bear the suffering under capitalism. In Germany’s West, the church is the crutch, in the East, withouth religion largerly, it is the Nazis because they provide the “roots” and the cultural cohesion that people need to a degree.
Obviously, as Marxists, we understand the differences and nuances of what “culture” provides. And we don’t have to say “After Hitler, us” but rather: “Look, we can also provide culture. We are also the proletariat, just like everyone else. We also like to sing songs and tell history as is, from a dialectical perspective, and we can be proud of the various German revolutionaries in feudalist times, etc.” So that the German proletariat can be proud of something and has an alternative to turn straight to fascism when they want to feel patriotic.
Whatever led you to believe i would like to ride the coat tails of the right wing is not what i intended at all.
Still, i think it is fairly stupid to attack comrades like this. Discussing ideas that we derive from theory should not come with attacks and being accused of desperartion.
Instead I’d suggest some work of your own and not denying the ideological work others do.