Parisians took to the streets in a massive demonstration with slogans and banners against France’s involvement in the Ukrainian conflict, as well as in favor of the country’s withdrawal from the European Union and NATO.
In addition to numerous signs with the word “Frexit,” others could be seen that read: “Macron, we will not die for Ukraine!”
💬 “I am Russia, I am France, I am Ukraine. Stop European state terrorism. The European Union kills. Paris — Frexit,” read another banner.
The march was organized by the Patriots party.
Video link -> https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1999909144657113088/vid/avc1/1920x1080/-_-dFzdxM1sem5Xh.mp4
Source -> https://xcancel.com/SputnikMundo/status/1999927805191037023#m
Source from France -> https://xcancel.com/f_philippot/status/1999894336142540894#m
Thats an interesting point. Where can I read that i can only apply this theory ony in one place? Because in the case of germany, this doesnt fit. The german worker is in a shitty situation for years and has been alienated from both his culture and his work for a long time. Then there is “the left” party that ignores systemic issues for non systemic, superficial issues, and of course that is why people turn reactionary. None of this remedies their situation and only makes getting through the day harder.
The interesting idea that i floated here a couple days back is “socialism with german characteristics”. One could think of digging at the roots of long overridden german culture (by white and christian supremacy as well as consumerism) and rebuild the national pride on the basis of a socialist system and without racism. First examples would be to reintroduce sütterlin in schools (which is different from frakturschrift which the nazis used) and put a focus on fusing national identity (in all people, not some race science bullshit) with the communist ideology.
I cant speak for france because i’m not there. Please keep that in mind. It would also be stupid of me to assume anything about french people as i have been there once for a weekend and have no deep knowledge in stark comprarison to gernany.
Edit: i got triggered and worded my answer too hard to understand and not precise enough. Changed for clarity.
No theory fits all times and places.
In Wretched of the Earth Fanon isn’t ever talking about a proletarian revolution. It is only about anti-colonialist revolution. And he isn’t laying out a step by step guide he is explaining what has happened in Algeria and other anti-colonial struggles.
Liberals saying those things. Leftists understand that the primary contradiction is class.
People are reactionary to start with they don’t turn reactionary. What makes a person reactionary is the fear of change, the desire to maintain the status quo or return to a previous version of the status quo (often a fictional past).
It sounds like you are trying to reinvent National bolshivism. Do I need to remind you how the communists working with Nationalist worked out last time in germany?
There is no german culture without white supremacy christianity and capitalism because germany is only 150 years old. Forget culture, you can’t use culture to bind a political project together because it is an ever changing thing. Defining what is and is not part of your culture is like nailing down your shadow. Culture is a construct of idealism not materialism.
Nationalism is a false consciousness, all it does is distract from class consciousness. Its fine if you can turn nationalists against a bigger foe in a colonial situation but they will always betray socialists because the colonizer will cut them a deal.
If that deal has already been made (like how the bourgeoisie of Germany have sold out the workers for US$) the only thing you can do is try to raise class consciousness so that workers will fight the bourgeoisie who share their nationality.
Then you don’t know the German left unfortunately.
That is debatable and depends a lot on the “nurture” aspect of an individual or society.
There is a strong regional culture in Germany that can be better used and is currently exploited by the right to woo people into their arms. Culture might be an ever changing thing but so is Marxism cuz it’s not dogmatic. And if culture is ever changing, then it can shed its oppressing weight of Christianity and Capitalism as well.
I think Germany is very far away from their class consciousness to be raised. And if someone tries that a bit, like the left party at the beginning of this year, they turn into a very “perfomative” left idealism shortly afterwards that further alienates Marxists. If we as Marxists in the West - who very rarely every “studied” Marxism as someone in the CCCP did or currently China or other Marxist countries did, but only read some books and got together in spaces like these - want to get out of our big heads and ivory towers, we need to actually speak to the proletariat in their own terms and language. And culture, traditions, “going through the motions” are sadly a great way to do that because we’re humans and because the proletariat is reactionary currently.
Anyone who doesn’t see Class as the primary contradiction is not a leftist.
There are many small regional cultures in Germany but there is no unifying culture, apart from maybe Vergangenheitsbewältigung.
The tactics of marxism change but the strategy and goal never does. A cultural taboo can change in less than a generation, there is nothing permanent in culture. The culture of Germany will not shed capitalist ideas until generations after the revolution. You cant do things the other way around because the capitalist control the intellectual and cultural means of production.
Germany is very far from proletarian revolution and it has a severe deficit of class consciousness like all western nations. You don’t counter that by choosing to foster false consciousness because that will end up with a false revolution like the 3rd reich.
It is our job to raise class consciousness because doing anything else will not give us correct results. We do need to reach out to workers but we don’t do it by indulging in nationalism or identity politics. We stand with those oppressed by capitalism whoever they are but until the reactionaries and nationalists are feeling the weight of their oppression they will not listen to us regardless of whether we appeal to their culture or not. We know exactly what happens you mix reactionary ideas into socialism.
I largely agree with you and I think this entire discussion comes down to praxis. Let me please provide my thoughts below. Happy to see your thinking and keep the exchange going.
That would currently be 95+% of Germany, including much of the “Die Linke” in Germany.
Again, fully agree here and we see how the Vergangenheitsbewältigung is being distorted by capitalists against Palestinians and anyone criticising Israel in general.
If the tactics of Marxism change, why not exploring the idea of applying Marxist praxis in the direction where we speak the language of the proletariat? If we can’t raise class consciousness (unless I’m mistaken here, but for Germany this is definitely not the case.), neither can we do it through culture, then how do we get people mobilised?
A Devil’s Advocate would say what have been tried by communists in Germany, or the capitalist core, doesn’t work, either. Trying to raise class consciousness is apparently not working and if this was the solution, then you are going right with the “Die Linke” who advocates for educating the masses only and is becoming something like the Greens were 30 years ago. By those standards, we always lose against capital, cuz they dictate what people learn. Again, being the Devil’s Advocate, Lenin would still wait for the revolution if he wanted to raise class consciousness only.
Of course, correct Theory, but how does that look like in praxis? Because currently, the right is wooing the proletariat into their arms, not the left. And using culture as a vehicle to educate and mobilise people can be a valid way, many socialist countries did and still do that.
Even the program of the KPD in 1918 talks of culture twice (https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/geschichte/deutsch/kpd/1918/programm.htm). One example being in their very first paragraph, as “cultural duty”: “On November 9th, workers and soldiers shattered the old regime in Germany. On the battlefields of France, the bloody delusion of Prussian saber-wielding world domination had crumbled. The criminal gang that had ignited the global conflagration and driven Germany into a sea of blood had reached the end of its rope. The people, deceived for four years, who in the service of the Moloch had forgotten their cultural duty, their sense of honor, and their humanity, who had allowed themselves to be used for every atrocity, awoke from their four-year paralysis—before the abyss.”
Its not that it isn’t possible to raise class consciousness, it is that agitation is very slow going and likely you will likely never see the results even if they do happen. Agitation is planting a seed of class consciousness and it can take years to sprout and only if the soil it falls in is properly prepared by suffering and exploitation. Its not easy because the material conditions aren’t ripe but that doesn’t mean it can’t work or wont work. It takes time but the capitalists can’t help but push the conditions into our favor. (due to the tendency for the rate of profits to fall, the need for capitalists to exploit workers increases over time.)
You are expressing a fear of losing to the fascists which is very understandable but sadly I don’t think that can be helped. For most of the imperialist nations the revolution is likely on the other side of fascism. Its like what George Jackson says in Blood in my Eye:
Revolution is born from suffering and exploitation. The people need to feel they have nothing to lose, that risking death is only a little worse than things going on as they are. Fascism offers “easy” “solutions” before the ethnic majority are at the breaking point. They will likely try fascism before risking everything on socialism. If you want to be effective maybe forget German working class people and go talk to immigrants?
You also seem to be expressing a feeling of urgency which is again understandable but it sounds like you are allowing that urgency to push you into making compromises or trying to get the ball rolling before knowing how to get it going in the right direction. You are thinking too big.
Communism will win, regardless of anything you do or anything that happens. Even if humanity goes extinct the next intelligent species will eventually discover upon scientific socialism just like they will discover the laws of gravity. So just take a deep breath and do what you can, Agitation. “capitalism is the cause of all your suffering” tell anyone who will listen. “Your problem is not ‘the Jews’ or immigrants it is the billionaires.” Mostly you will be ignored but if you say it a thousand times that’s a thousand chances to make an impact.
You aren’t going to single-handedly come up with a new theory of Marxism that turns Germany over to socialism overnight. Start by joining or forming a Marxist study group. If you can’t organize 2 or 3 people to read Marx and Lenin together developing a new theory of reaching the German working class is just a pipe dream.
Thank you for at least taking the time to explain this instead of turning completely nuts like some other comrades are, sadly.
So, again. Dialectical materialism is not about explaining to the other person why they are wrong but understanding their point of view as well as their material circumstances, forming an antithesis to a thesis and coming up with synthesis.
Not one person has shown the respect to actually apply DM to this obviously critical problem as people are starting to dogpile on a comrade who has been very active and constructive for months, neither does anyone intervene or anything. this situation is a bancruptcy declaration of lemmygrad imo.
That said, let me form a thesis you can attack if you have the on the ground knowledge of germany:
And now a couple clarifications:
People are not turning reactionary in this thread. You speak very arrogantly and authoritatively while making very basic errors. People are reacting to your egotism they are not “turning reactionary.” I’ve seen how other people are talking to you and it is well deserved. I can’t tell if you are a really good troll or a really confused comrade.
Dialectical materialism is a personal process for understanding changes. It is not a method of debate. When you start with a flawed thesis you cannot perform dialectical materialism correctly. You don’t get to throw dialectical materialism around like a shield from criticism. When someone points out an error in your thesis you can not just change your thesis and keep the same synthesis. If you add salt instead of sugar don’t expect it to come out as cake.
I will say this again Fanon does not apply to germany or france. Fanon writes from perspective of the colonized. There are plenty of books about communist revolution in the developed nations. Marx seemed to think that is where socialism would come from but he was wrong.
It is not Chauvinism to understand that different societies require different forms of socialism due to their different material conditions. The difference between China and Germany is that China’s communist revolution started in a semi-colonial semi-feudal society. That is what “Socialism with Chinese characteristics” means it means socialism adapted to the material conditions of China.
There is no line between “national consciousness” and nationalism. just like there is no difference between class consciousness and classism. The one is gives birth to the other. You cannot use nationalism or national conciseness as a basis for socialism because it is by definition exclusive and supremacist. It is a false consciousness.
Other comrades are turning “nuts” (ableism by the way) because you are trying to reconstruct National Socialism in Germany from first principles. Someone suggesting creating a fascist project is going to get attacked. Stop suggesting it.
Nationalism is only a tool for the progressives in a very narrow set of circumstances when the national bourgeois interests are opposed to the international capitalists and imperialists. That is not the case in Germany, where the national bourgeois interests are aligned with the empire.
Even then it’s a very temporary and fraught alliance. Nationalism as an ideology should never be promoted, only temporary alliance with the national bourgeoisie in conditions of decolonial wars of independence.
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i reported this because you are massively out of line.
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And you sound like a chauvinist who is trying to beat a comrade into submission. You should consider leaving grad.
My man, you’re the one who’s punching left, attacking so-called “woke” culture (like gender-inclusive language). The distance from your argument and those of A"C"P Twitter is virtually zero.
You’re my second block on this whole server. Be proud. I have not seen a person more unable to apply dialectical materialism on here, ever.
Btw. you’re using liberalist arguments. Punching left (against ultras) is totally our style and “woke” is not interesting to us at all. We support those most oppressed out of being human, not out of being woke. The liberal left is the one supporting e.g. migrants because it is on vogue to do so but will immediately turn around and use chauvinism against anyone. Same as the chauvinism you’re using with me.
And, the arguments of the alt right and marxists are often the same, the afd very often has the same viewpoints as marxists because they are demagogues. The liberal leftists are the only ones who would vote against a beneficial law just to not support the alt right. That is dysfunctional ultra behavior. It is against lenins teachings. Lenin wrote a whole book about this stupidity.
That said. Good luck with that attitude. I’m out.