Summary
Fox News’s attempt to find support for Donald Trump in Greenland backfired, as most residents expressed disinterest in his proposals.
While one Trump supporter was found, the majority of Greenlanders interviewed criticized Trump’s comments and expressed a preference for remaining under Danish rule.
Despite these setbacks, Trump continues to advocate for acquiring Greenland, citing economic security concerns.
Get this tattooed onto your brain: voters don’t owe the Democrats victory.
Bitching about voters and no-voters is a dead end. Stop pouting and make a plan to do something about it.
Get this tattooed onto your brain: people (who aren’t republiQans) who refused to vote Democrat are going to get the shit kicked out of them - along with the Democrats - for at least two, very likely four years or more.
If they voted, but for someone else, OK. That’s standard disagreement. Fine.
But for those who chose to not vote at all - you suck. You deserve the shit sandwich trump is going to make us all eat. And a lot of people posting prior to the election were very out loud and proud about not voting. They need to understand what they got and why they got it.
Nah, miss me with that shit. I voted for Kamala, but we’re on two, arguably three elections now (16, 24, arguably 12) where the big Democratic pitch has been “we’re not that guy”. Not “fix healthcare”, not “fix the housing crisis”, not “fix the student debt crisis”-- and bear in mind that when I say fix, I mean fix, not take a few small token steps towards addressing it (maybe)-- no, the big pitch is “we’re not him.” The two times now it’s failed to resonate, and reliably they blame the voters for failing to be inspired by their powerful message of not being the other guy. It’s political and intellectual laziness, they don’t want to have to make and keep meaningful promises (and potentially piss off big donors).
It is 100% on each political party to bring a message that resonates with the voters and gives them a reason to show up. Blaming the voter is a trap, it’s not actionable, and it’s setting the democrats up for failure all over again.
Your position amounts to saying “We cannot move left until we have moved much farther left”.
Biden and/or Harris pretty much tried to do everything that was politically possible on both of those things. If you were holding out because you thought it would be possible to immediately do MORE than what they tried/proposed, you were merely setting yourself up to be a lifetime loser in politics.
No one owes you a vote in this country. Push for mandatory voting, I’m with you there but no one owes you a vote, a win or a care honestly.
I myself don’t see the bemusement by people who hold the same idea as you. If people didn’t vote that’s the fault of politics and politicians not the people regardless of the reason they didn’t vote.
It’s guilting the consumer about pollution when the most pollution comes from the producer.
I voted for Kamala, I didn’t hold out. I’m trying to offer a tough and honest critique of how to move forward from this. The democrats have settled on a strategy of slowly shuffling right and being yesteryear Republicans on many fronts, and making mountains out of molehills when they do get the occasional small W. That’s reliably bitten them, as we saw in this last election; I think the exit data shows they flipped a total of 1% of Republicans. Meanwhile, Trump’s out there trying to buy Greenland, and the republicans went “okay, I guess we’re doing this”. It’s time to stop fretting about what the horoscopes say and start pushing on the gas as hard as we can.
No. That was their strategy 20-30 years ago. They are actually trying to make progress now, but I agree they need to become much more aggressive in doing that.
You are forgetting that these “small wins” are HUGE WINS to somebody. I had ACA health insurance for several years. Dems did that. Would I have rather had medicare for all? Of course. But I would have had NO health insurance for YEARS without Dems creating the ACA. That was huge for me. And before the ACA people on the internet were always telling me there was no chance at all that health care would ever be reformed.
Let’s not forget that Obama rode into office on the huge promise of fixing healthcare and providing a public option. He got elected on swinging for the fences and big systemic change. To his credit, he did try pretty hard that first term. The second term was much more jaded, and Obama himself seemed to shift right on a number of things, chiefly LGBT rights. But I digress, what big promises have we seen since then? Where have the democrats swung for the fences? I can’t remember a single equally powerful promise from HRC16. Biden had some okay ones, like student loan forgiveness, but nothing that felt equally powerful, I think. Kamala promised to codify Roe V Wade, which is something, but that was couched with expanding fracking and fixing housing by offering first time home buyer credits.
And building low income housing.
I could go on for days about what we need to do for housing, but it’s one of those things where I went into it giddy about the Harris campaign and came out of it saying “oh… Well, that’s alright.” It certainly didn’t feel like anything incredible.
So then we’re all good here. You did what you could, end of story.
The rest of it - how politics in the US today works; how it should - is standard disagreement.
Blaming the voter is extraordinarily important and apt. The people who didn’t show up fucked us, and by extension the planet, over. Furthermore they now wish to be absolved for fucking up extremely badly. No.
As for setting the Democrats up for failure, I disagree with that too, but I see your point there.
Okay, then tell me, what do you do with “it’s the voter’s fault, we made no mistakes and deserved this win”? Because to me, that’s the political equivalent of shoving your hands in your pockets and blaming God. It’s a way to absolve yourself of any responsibility in how things went and of any need to deal with it. Because, I mean, what are you going to do, climb into the bible and fight God / climb into the CNN exit polls and fight the voters? That’s a non-starter.
NO ONE is saying this. I haven’t even seen someone claim a majority of blame belongs to non-voters. They absolutely deserve some of the blame. There’s quite a few turds in this punchbowl.
God I wish more people could understand this. They want to point at a single person or group and say all the blame lies with them when there’s so much to go around.
JUST VOTE.
That’s it. That’s the whole of it.
Anything else is something else. I’m blaming the NON-VOTERS. People who voted are not in that data set.
Okay, I’m seeing a lot of caps. Remember that our goals are more aligned than you probably think just now. I’m going to ask you to take a breath and know that I’m not trying to prevail against you. Rather, I’m trying to persuade you of the urgent need for the democrats to critically re-examine their strategy going forward.
What you’ve just said doesn’t seem actionable to me. What do we do with “JUST VOTE”? How do we execute on that and get a meaningful outcome?
Well, for one, we can foster a sense of civic duty to vote.
For two, we can focus on rideshares, ways to make voting by mail easier, things like that to remove obstacles to voting
For three, we can focus on defeating the evil measures set into law by generations of republiQans to prevent people from voting such as voter ID laws (although that horse has probably left the barn), robo calls, gerrymandering, challenging voter eligibility, things like that.
Those are three main areas that will help people vote. The Democrats are on board with all of them. The republiQans are actively working to demolish all of them. If someone wants to vote for Jill Stein or their gramma or something - fine, we can argue about that later. At least it’s participation in the fundamentals of democracy.
That all sounds great.
The first item kind of reads like “we’ll just go to the moon” once you start to think about it. It’s not impossible, but I think it’s not a realistic tasking.
Two and three definitely seems like something the DNC can and should be organizing.
I think there’s value in demonstrating to the non-voter population what the consequences are. For the sake of education. Also, doing this does not preclude doing other things. I wrote this message, and then I’m going to go do some lobbying. There’s a few hours in a day
I’m more addressing the attitude. Voter blaming is self-defeating, imo. I know that kind words usually read as sarcasm over the internet, but I mean it, good on you for getting out there and lobbying, I love to see it.
Thanks, it’s very local but I do what I can.
I love it even more. Local advocacy isn’t given half the respect it deserves; it’s far more powerful and effective than folks think. I’m doing a lot of local advocacy too, it definitely feels a lot less like shouting into a void.
Non voters are self-defeating. that’s the fucking point. If someone voted, then they did what they could!
No. There’s all kinds of people that don’t vote because they’ve accurately assessed that the system resists changing to reflect their needs. People don’t believe in the message of the parties or the government anymore. That’s why we’re in this mess in the first place. Imo, the problem is that the DNC is leaving voters on the table by not giving people something to show up for. Not being Trump isn’t enough. You might think it’s enough, but for at least five million people-- and realistically much more than that-- this last election, it wasn’t. The Democratic party needs to get its shit together, stop blaming voters, stop feeling entitled to people’s votes just because they’re not the other guy, and get out there and really start swinging for the fences. No more insurance regulations, promise universal healthcare; no more homebuyers credits, promise to plunk down commie blocks until homelessness is ended; no more highly conditional student loan debt forgiveness, fuck that whole system up with a hammer so that nobody needs to go into five-or-more digit debt to get a job. Don’t give me excuses or reasons, I’m not interested, Trump is trying to buy/invade Greenland, I don’t give a single fuck about what the legislative horoscopes say, let’s get out there and do it.
I’m pretty sure the system does not resist changing things like city council and school board seats.
That makes no sense. The system can only “reflect their needs” as a result of voting. By not voting you are setting yourself up to being a lifetime loser in political affairs. In the long term the system will always reflect what the majority of the VOTERS want, and not necessarily what he majority of the CITIZENS want. If Dems were routinely getting large victories, then politicians would be routinely competing against each other to demonstrate who is going the farthest and the fastest in achieving progress.
They’ve inaccurately assessed it because not voting is the one thing they can do that will help exactly zero people.
The DNC is famous for listening to idiots. It’s a fair point. but “not giving people something to show up for” is also wrong. See [everything that’s going to happen for four loooooooong goddamn years] for more information.
Every racist policy, every fascist federal judicial appointment, every foreign policy nightmare, every economic disaster, dog-forbid another global fucking pandemic - ALL would have been avoided.
So they didn’t show up to prevent that, and since that’s not enough for them - fuck them. They can fucking eat shit. Because the people who did show up to vote for a demented rapist will be shoving shit down on us the whole time.
Fools.
This offers no value other than catharsis, which is totally fine and acceptable, but non-voters aren’t hanging out in the comment sections of political forums.
Yes they are. Some people don’t vote out of apathy, but others don’t vote as an explicit leftist stance. This has a long history going back at least to the 1800s. It’s a shit stance, but unfortunately pretty popular.
I dunno, I saw lots of people in the comment sections leading up to the election that were quite vocal about not voting/voting 3rd party.
That might be because the DNC campaign brought on Liz Cheney and said nothing will fundamentally change. Those people you are referring to were voters, disenfranchised voters who could have maybe swayed, but now we are a the cope stage
People here on Lemmy were saying that long before Liz Cheney was even a factor.
Doesn’t change the fact that they were non-voters in the comment section.
Change isn’t always good. Yes, I too want change for the better, but voting in change for the worst, even by not voting, is still abysmally stupid no matter the reason.
Welcome to US politics where your choices are abysmally stupid or worse…which might be the reason people are looking for another party to call home or just give up entirely
(1) It was the Harris campaign, not “the DNC”. Why would Harris give a shit what “the DNC” thinks about anything? Harris was giving money to the DNC, NOT the other way around. You know that the DNC is not a person right?
(2) There were many proposed significant changes. A $3000 per child tax credit isn’t a huge thing? The billionaire owned media didn’t want you to learn about them so that Trump would give them gigantic GOP tax cuts. So the media buried it. You could and should have made the effort to learn what they were but you didn’t. You could have read her 82 page PDF of policy proposals.
(3) As long Harris didn’t change any of her positions to get Liz Cheney’s endorsement, why would she NOT want a free endorsement from a Republican? Especially since everyone knew that Cheney only endorsed Harris to highlight that Traitorapist Trump committed treason against our country.
I am.
Well, did MrL sway your political leanings for the last election here today?
No. Askthe question.
Couldn’t the eagles simply have flown the hobbits to mount Doom ?
That’s complex.
A. They work for eru and eru tries not to get too involved at that point.
B. Mordor has air defenses
C. The kings of men (ringwraith) actively hunt eagles and most of erus minions for that matter.
D. They show up when saurons eye is turned away and troops notably the kings of men moved away from the main gate.
E. The big one, it would have been a boring book.
Are chem trails making frogs gay?
Dumb question.
I couldn’t vote and I’m not at all alone so stop with the inarticulate bullshit.
What is the inarticulate bullshit we’re talking about here?
The Democrat politicians are rich and will be fine. It’s all us non-rich who will be fucked. Way to show them, I guess?
This 100%. Way too many people are thinking we are voting Dem in order to do politicians a f*cking personal favor. No, we vote Dem to do OURSELVES a favor and the country a favor.
It’s not about showing them. The democrats need to give people a reason to show up, or people won’t (and didn’t). Not being Trump isn’t enough, regardless of whatever your or I might wish. That’s all there is to it.
And the voters needed to realize that the reason to show up is to avoid becoming 1930s Germany. Too late now. Yes, the Democrats suck, but full-on fascism sucks a whole lot more. They’ll be wishing they still had milquetoast corporate Democrats in charge as opposed to the alternative.
Okay, but we’re here now. Blaming the voters and no-voters won’t help. Where do we go from here?
Probably straight to hell. But this was a response to
They should be voting for their own sake, not the Democrats’.