- cross-posted to:
- TheIndependent@metawire.eu
- cross-posted to:
- TheIndependent@metawire.eu
With those tipping screens now seemingly everywhere, Americans think that the practice has “gotten out of control,” according to a new survey.
At least 63 percent of US residents now having a negative view of tipping, up from 59 percent last year, according to Bankrate, a financial publisher and comparison service.
Yet, the number of Americans who have gotten used to tipping has gone up since the COVID-19 pandemic, when it slipped. There have not been significant declines in tips for service providers, the survey noted, particularly for hairdressers and restaurant servers.
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Nearly half? Are the rest just not paying attention?
I am not American.
When I first dined in US restaurant, I was flabbergasted with the fact that the cashier pulled out a tablet and already have five buttons ready to be tapped - 12%, 15%, 18%, CUSTOM TIP.
That no tip button was below the four prominent buttons.
No, I have never seen this in Japan, China, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore and of course Indonesia where I live.
The worst thing is when they try to export this culture to other countries. Boycotting American gig-economy apps is the best thing you can do to try to curtail this.
I’m not saying you’re wrong about gig economy apps, but the tipping culture being described here goes way beyond that. Pretty much anywhere that uses one of the popular point of sale systems like Square has a tip request screen you have to click through in order to finish your transaction
I’ve experienced that in the US also, but thankfully where I am Square does not display the tip request screen. So far, I’ve only noticed requests for tips in the gig economy apps, and I appreciate that you’re drawing attention to how much more pervasive it is in the US. All the more reason to not have it spread here.
So… don’t participate? This seems like a victimless crime unless you’re being forced to tip.
There’s a bit to unpack here. The fact that you characterize it as a “crime” at all implies that something wrong is being done in the first place. No, it’s not a crime to not tip. However, someone is being negatively impacted when you don’t.
Does the system suck? Yes, it sucks. It sucks the moon right out of the sky, but someone is being hurt by you not tipping, and that person is essentially a minimum wage worker that depends on those tips to survive. Until that system changes, you are the asshole for not tipping when the service is acceptable to you.
The someones in question, namely the wait staff, are often the biggest defenders of tipping culture in my experience. They don’t WANT a higher base wage to happen. Without tipping they’d make less money and the career wouldn’t be viable for adults. Boo hooo.
So when it comes to asshole accusations…eh. That’s your opinion. Nobody made them choose that career. You’re being protectionist and I’d reject that shaming attempt if I didn’t still tip a little.
I didn’t seek out being a cop, a priest, a door knocking scammer either. I think tipping is gross and I’d rather be homeless than prey on people and then defend my preying on people because it pays the bills. I lived a decade impoverished. Even at my most desperate I never turned to predatory careers. It’s a choice.
I tip a flat 5 bux. Not a percentage. For someone I interact with for 10 minutes I think it’s reasonable. I hope they split it with the cook staff. If it’s acceptable for a delivery driver who does work harder and has higher vehicle maintenance demands, then it’s fine in a restaurant too.
Spoken like someone who has never been to a country where tipping culture doesn’t exist. The service industry works just fine when businesses are required to pay staff a living wage instead of pushing that expense on to the customer. You level the blame at the wait staff for pushing this culture, but that’s simply not the case.
I know it works and I’ve been overseas, you missed my point, but I where it could be missed I’ll fix that. The waiters/waitresses in North America disagree with you and are part of what holds us back.
What straw man am I punching in this scenario?
It was too harsh I saw where you could draw the wrong impression afterwards. That’s retracted now sorry.
Um… what?
Talk about devide and conquer tactics.
Just avoid tipping places, and the market will sort itself out
And before you have a melt down, just remember that food and drink out where tipping is required is the definition of discretionary spending, you will be fine.
Just avoid tipping places
Part of the problem is that fucking everything is starting to ask for a tip.
If worker is not paid, tipped min wage, then don’t tip.
If workers is laid tipped min wages then don’t go there. Ie sit down restaurants in the us
Oh, that’s the thing that’s out of control in America currently. I’m glad someone’s focusing on what’s important.
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Everyone knows we’re only allowed to think and talk about Trump right now, right?
Daddies getting a divorce, that’s a YOU problem boy
Who are you talking to
So fucking tired of tipping. I’ve read recommendations of 30% these days. That is absolutely insane. The prices for everything has increased substantially already, and we are expected to tip proportionally to it? Not to mention, the tip screens on POS systems are showing up at regular businesses now. So fucking annoying.
I’ve read recommendations of 30% these days
Bloody hell! Anyone saying that is trying to take advantage of people.
In the example you give, the business owner increases prices in line with inflation but hey! the workers need a pay increase too, and I’m not paying them more, so the customer should tip more… so the recommended tip amount increases from 10-15% to 20-30%. But this is not in line with inflation, this is an exponential increase.
A lot of people won’t recognize this as people don’t generally understand exponentials that easily.
A lot of people won’t recognize this as people don’t generally understand exponentials that easily.
Given your example, you’re struggling with it as well.
To clarify, the tip percent shouldn’t need to change since it’s a percentage of the final bill. So, it automatically accounts for inflation already.
If the average bill goes up 10% and customers always tip the same % then the workers would see a 10% increase in tips.
Then stop.
Fair point! I guess it’s just so ingrained that I feel like a jerk if I don’t.
ETA: I don’t tip at businesses just because they have a tip screen on their new POS system. I only tip at restaurants.
The employers are the real problem. But without an organized movement, random people deciding not to tip anymore is only going to hurt already underpaid workers and kind of does make you a jerk. Some servers literally don’t get a paycheck at the end of the week if they didn’t get tipped enough because they’re paid so little that it’s all absorbed by social security and medicare taxes. If you feel you can’t afford to tip, just pick up food to go rather than being waited on.
But 100% do not tip at random business that have decided to use a tip screen. Not sure how many people know this, but the companies that make those machines actually get a cut of the tips which is partly why they push tipping so aggressively. These days I just pay with cash everywhere to avoid the issue altogether. Better for my privacy too, and local businesses often offer cash discounts.
Everywhere I’ve lived, employers are legally required to make up the difference if tipped employees made under the min wage (and no, I don’t mean the sub-min or “tipped” wage). If they’re not doing that, we’re back to employers/the culture are the problem.
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People just need to stop doing it. In my city in France, one restaurant started using the POS with the tip screen and people just choose to not tip and they completely disabled the screen after a few weeks. But still some business do push for it.
It needs to be outlawed for real
There’s a massive difference between people saying they wouldn’t mind paying more if it meant not tipping and people actually being willing to pay more. The difference between a 20% markup on prices and being asked to voluntarily tip an amount that isn’t specified is pretty minimal. Having worked in a job that relied on tips for over a decade, I can’t tell you how many times someone who didn’t tip complained about the price without a tip. Would they pay it anyway? Maybe. Is it probably a good idea? Maybe. But I don’t know many situations in which a 20% hike on prices translates into a 20% increase in wages.
There are definitely a lot of people who would benefit from just making a living wage rather than being paid below minimum and having to supplement that with tips. Often that person just ends up not making minimum wage at the end of the day, and there are definitely companies that exploit that pay arrangement to get people to do work that shouldn’t have to rely on tips regardless. There’s a small burger place around here that literally hires counter help for tipped wages, but then also makes them do dishes, clean bathrooms, and even help make some of the food. They’re basically being paid less than minimum to do two to three jobs, only one of which even legally qualifies for the reduced pay rate.
But would the patrons of that restaurant really not complain if they had to pay an extra $3-4 for a burger? I’m not so sure.
One thing I’ve learned about people is that many of us find complaining to be cathartic. If it wasn’t tipping, it’d be the prices or the service or something else. A lot of the time it’s already all of those things.
In the mean time, though, it’s probably better to push back against unfair labor practices by trying to pass local laws rather than by just stiffing your server.
I don’t get this logic. Me and everyone close to me already tips at least 20% on food. Why would we suddenly have a problem with paying 20% more and not tipping? It’s the same amount of money?
If you already tip 20% and don’t complain about it you’re probably not one of the same people who don’t tip or tip minimally and complain about the price. I’ve gotten 50 cent tips on 30 minute cab rides while being paid half of minimum wage by people who complain about prices constantly. There’s a pretty wide range of attitudes and behaviors around tipping and treatment workers.
There is a psychological term for it but essentially we as humans are fucking dumb when it comes to money and even though we tip, a higher price on the menu hits us differently than a lower price with a 20% tip later.
Iirc the experiment was done under different types of service as well and consistently across the board people preferred to see a lower price even though the overall cost was the same.
Prices of goods do not correlate 1-1 with increase in wages. Getting rid of tips would only result in prices of goods increasing (from what I remember when researching this years ago) like .5-1%. Most people would not notice this cost increase at all.
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Worked great with tariffs
The other half work for tips only.
Is this the new story that sites write every time they’re out of ideas and need to publish something? Cuz I feel like there’s eight of these articles every week.
Even our local news station re-ran their genZ/millenial shame piece this week on how they dont tip while gen X and boomers always tip. No point to be made. Just “hur dur yOuNgE pEoPle DoNt TiP.”
I personally don’t even tip anymore.
Who’s forcing them to?
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Have never worked a job that earned me tips, but it seems to me that everyone who holds a full time job should not be required to rely on kindness of strangers for their livelyhood.
Regulations should be such that they mandate all employers to pay a liviable wage.
If that causes places to shutdown, let them greedy bastards shutdown. The market will correct itself.
Continuing as it is today is bad for everyone but the employers and capitalists.
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If that’s bad for your business, can you really call yourself a capitalist?
For short term gain? Hells yes.
It’s not kindness anymore. It’s peer pressure. That’s why people hate it. If it was true kindness then it would be totally private: i.e. you’d decide whether or not to tip the next day when you’re at home alone, with no one watching.
And there’s the crux, right? It’s not a kindness, and it never could be a kindness because that’s their actual wages. It isnt peer pressure, it is a conscious understanding that the person you are tipping is literally counting on that tip to pay their bills. You’re paying them because their boss won’t, and that is rightfully starting to piss people off.
Just stop tipping?
Unfortunately tipping in North America is a wage subsidy paid by patrons. Employers can get away with paying employees less as there is an expectation that the public will supplement the difference. It wouldn’t be enough to just stop tipping, a change to employment practices is necessary.
I think if everybody stopped tipping, a change in employment practices would soon follow, because all those people working consumer subsidized wages would quit.
When the only choice a person has is a little money vs. no money, they’re usually forced to choose the former.
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