• OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    You said I can’t say “a majority”, so I said “a majority”.

    Great, now try saying it in the actual context:

    My only assertion is a very simple one: Trump wouldn’t have won if a majority of the American people didn’t vote for him en masse. Am I wrong about that?

    Yes, you are wrong about that. That happened twice.

    Changing from “didn’t vote for him” to “weren’t morally culpable (including non-voters)” is massively shifting the goalposts.

    • a_gee_dizzle@lemmy.ca
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      3 months ago

      Look at yourself. You are literally crossing out what I said then inserting your own words into your quote of me. Then you announce triumphantly that I’m wrong, due to this fictional quote that you just made up.

      Maybe its time to put the phone down bud.

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        3 months ago

        Do you think that when I said “you can’t say ‘the majority,’” I meant that you couldn’t say it in completely unrelated contexts?

        No, you can’t say “the majority” in the context we were actually discussing. Because if you replaced “en masse” with “the majority of” you would be very objectively wrong. So yes, “en masse” is doing a lot of heavy lifting, as I said.

        • a_gee_dizzle@lemmy.ca
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          3 months ago

          Right. So you’re talking about the voting habits of Americans, and I’m talking about the voting habits of Americans, yet we are still somehow talking about “completely unrelated” topics. Okie dokie then

          • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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            3 months ago

            Keep carrying that goalpost right over the heads of a third of Americans.

            • a_gee_dizzle@lemmy.ca
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              3 months ago

              Nice try. But this “goalpost” was introduced by you when you decided to take issue with my use of the term “en masse”. At no point did I ever assert that a literal majority of Americans voted for Trump. The actual goalpost I was forwarding (that Americans bear responsibility for the current state of their leadership) is something that you seem to be trying to divert attention away from, probably because you’ve realized that any argument against that position is going to sound silly

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                3 months ago

                The actual goalpost I was forwarding (that Americans bear responsibility for the current state of their leadership)

                Show me where I disputed that claim, ever.

                The only claim that’s in dispute is you repeatedly trying to defend the American system as democratic, because you’ve bought into to American propaganda.

                You don’t get to decide which of your positions I’m challenging.

                • a_gee_dizzle@lemmy.ca
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                  3 months ago

                  Show me where I disputed that claim, ever.

                  Okay, so you agree. Great.

                  Tell me then: if America is not democratic, then why do Americans bear responsibility for the state of their leadership? Compare: I don’t blame Chinese citizens for Xi Jinping because the Chinese people literally have no control over his tenure in power. So if America is, like China, not a democracy, then why should I not give the American people the same grace?

                  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                    3 months ago

                    If a driver doesn’t press the brakes because he was on his phone, but also the brake lines had been cut so it would not have mattered if he had, then would you say the driver is completely innocent?

                    Give Americans an actually democratic system and there’s a good chance we’d still fuck it up. The fact that we suck is a separate fact from the fact that our political system is a sham. As I explained to you in my first reply.

                    To speak in your language, it’s kind of like how over 90% of Chinese people say they approve of their government in anonymous polls conducted by Western institutions. I would say that those people do, in fact, carry some culpablity for their government’s actions, regardless of whether the government is democratic or not.