Mods, if this is too offtopic, or potentially too incendiary a topic, I understand, I just do not know where else to post this.
Further, I fully agree with the sidebar rule here, let us please keep this civil and keep politics out of this to the greatest extent possible.
DISCLAIMER: Please, everyone and anyone, do not consider any of this discussion to be 100% confirmed fact, this is meant for reasoned consideration, not wild speculation nor justifying motivated reasoning of any kind or flavor.
Further: I do not endorse any political views of this guy, but I think his ballistic analysis is worth consideration.
Please at least watch this linked ~20 minute video.
The guy claims to be either a current or former USMC Scout Sniper, and while I cannot confirm this beyond a reasonable doubt… I also do not really have any reason to doubt that he is.
There is also a longer 2 1/2 hour livestream where this guy presumably goes into more detail, which he has linked on his YT vid page.
Essentially, the guy goes through 4 different camera angles.
He explains that the movement of Kirk’s shirt is almost certainly not a result of any kind of body armor as is widely being speculated; instead, it is from how Kirk’s lapel mic and earpiece and the wire for such were affixed to him.
He shows that the earpiece actually was captured flying off of Kirk’s right ear, and that this is what caused the movement of Kirk’s shirt.
But also… he believes that the shot did not come from from straight on.
He believes that the shot came from Kirk’s right, and he believes that the wound which…featured the ‘geyser’ of blood coming out of Kirk’s neck… he believes this was an exit wound, not an entry wound.
He believes that the entry would was somewhere on the right side of roughly Kirk’s jaw, to behind or around his right ear, that the round traversed through Kirk from his right, to his left, and that it likely functionally killed him instantly either by obliteration of the lower brain, or severing of the spinal cord.
He also believes he may have captured a reflection of a muzzle flash, as well as potentially the muzzle flash itself… indicating a shooting position from Kirk’s right… and that the currently most popular and widely accepted (?) idea that the shot came from 150 - 200 yards/meters away, basically from nearly directly in front of Kirk… cannot be the case.
Finally, be believes that the caliber used was not 30.06, that the visible wound is simply too small to indicate a 30.06, that it is more likely a lower caliber round.
At least this is inline with … what I have been able to gather / opinionate based on the published image of what is supposed to be the weapon used in the incident.
Long story short, I think it is more likely that the rifle is not ‘an older Mauser in 30.06’ as officially described, but instead, more likely to be either a Remington 700 or Ruger American, a model from roughly the 80s - 90s - 00s, and that it is likely to be in caliber .270 or .243.
Hopefully I have linked this correctly, here is the start of a comment chain from myself, in another thread, a few days back, when I attempted to analyze the presented image of the weapon being claimed to be the weapon.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21325405
If you would, please discuss in the most objective manner you are capable of.
If anyone thinks they can tell the caliber of a bullet from an entrance wound on a t-shirt, from crap video, they’re full of shit. Don’t even need to bother with the rest.
Uh, how much experience do you have with exit wounds?
Its actually quite common to estimate an approximate caliber of an exit would based on its diameter.
Like uh, police, all around the country, do this regularly.
You yourself can go elsewhere on youtube and find tens of thousands of videos of people shooting at the same thing with different calibers to show how the exit wounds differ, some of them even go out of their way to construct as close to anatomically accurate to a human, models, as possible, to do this.
EDIT:
Also, please let me know about your analysis process to determine whether or not a wound is an entrance or an exit wound.
It is quite common that with smaller calibers… you can’t even see an emtrance wound without being very close to wound.
This happens all the time, at hospitals, even in autopsies… exit wounds tend to be a lot larger and more apparent, and sometimes it can be difficult for even professional medical personnel to properly locate entrance wounds from smaller calibers, they tend to bleed less profusely.
A lot actually, and no one is making any accurate assessments based on crappy video under a shirt.
if you had watched the video you’d know the blood came out of his fucking neck and not his shirt
Oh?
Are you a paramedic?
A hunter?
An ER/OR nurse/doctor surgeon?
Also did you even watch the full video?
I don’t know what you’re talking about with ‘a video under a shirt’.
None of the videos in this guy’s clips were ‘under’ a shirt.
Mortuary assistant. And the video of Kirk only shows the wound through his shirt. Stop trying to push conspiracy bullshit.
Where?
Show me a screenshot where there is a clear wound and hole in the shirt.
Show blood emmenating up from this supposed wound to the chest, not resulting from the later spray of blood from his neck.
Further:
What exactly are you proposing?
That the round came from Kirk’s front, did something like hit his sternum?
And then exited out of his neck?
How would that work?
As best I can tell, he wasn’t wearing body armor, neither plate nor kevlar.
Plate would be extremely obvious and practically impossible to hide under a thin white t shirt, and even if he did have a low profile, thin kevlar underlayer, a straight on shot from a 30.06 would blow right through that, it would not deflect nearly 90 degrees, no way, thats ludicrous.
Prior to me seeing this video, my conception of the shot was that the wound that ‘geysers’, in the front, was the entrance wound, and it was coming from more or less straight in front of him, and thus there should be some exit wound roughly on the rear of his neck or head…
But I never saw anything to actually indicate the presence of such a wound, as I went into a PTSD shock episode upon seeing the close up footage of the neck geyser and the life leaving his eyes… and I had to take a fucking break from looking at shit for a while.
I do appreciate that you are a mortician assistant though, thats better than nothing, though I doubt you deal with many bodys other than those that have been dead for some time.
I know I’m late to this party and I can’t watch the vid on newpipe, but I’ve seen reports of bullets doing some weird shit in the body, like entering in the collarbone and exiting out the leg type weird. Especially rounds like m855a1. It’s theoretically possible that could happen, but still I’d assume it would bounce down rather than up especially if the shot came from a higher angle.
Now, I’m not saying this happened here (actually it most certainly did not lmao), the wound was clearly in his neck (idk what this dude is talking about shirts for) and I couldn’t tell you if it was a .30 cal entrance wound or a .223 v-max exit. I definitely would be interested in knowing where (or if) the bullet was ever found as it could help indicate trajectory, as you mentioned earlier in another comment. Or if it was a through and through it should be pretty clear which hole is which to investigators but I’ve seen no back angles, so… If there is no exit, it could have turned down like those a1s and be stuck in his abdomen, but by now somebody has to know the answers to this.
Edit: The mystery deepens. I looked it up because this got me curious: https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/charlie-kirk-didnt-have-exit-wound-turning-point-spokesperson-says/
What the fuck?! Besides this being a weird as fuck religious article, the claim is they found the bullet “just beneath the skin” because his bones were adamantium?! That’s less believable than the bullet squirreling out like an a1!
Lol even ALEX FUCKING JONES is calling this bullshit https://www.rawstory.com/alex-jones-superman-kirk-bullet/
Its true that what I described, and you described, the… under the skin, wild bullet trajectory thing…
Yes, that can happen.
But not with a 30.06 hitting the sternum straight on, no fucking way, that bullet is too heavy and going too fast, it would crack through the sternum, deform, maybe splinter off a bit, maybe those bits could do weird shit, but no way man, I do not see a 30.06 bouncing off of, or internally tracing around a human sternum, above or below the skin.
A 30.06 at ~150 yards will blow apart a cinder block.
He’d have a sucking chest wound, and almost certainly a massive blow out exit wound on his back.
5.56? M855A1? Sure, I could believe that could do the internal sternum bounce thing.
Not a 30.06 though, just go run the kinetic energy numbers comparing those two rounds, velocity and mass.
M855A1 5.56x45mm:
https://www.wideners.com/blog/m855a1-enhanced-performance-round/
KE at ~ 150 yards = ~ 950 FT/LBs
30.06 Springfield:
https://www.wideners.com/blog/30-06-vs-30-30/
KE at ~ 150 yards = ~ 2200 FT/LBs
Yeah, yeah thats more than twice as much energy in a 30.06 as a 5.56 at that range, its gonna just punch right through his sternum, maybe it could bounce off of his spinal column and then do wacky shit, but then we would have all seen blood starting to come out of his chest.
Only level 4 plate could possibly have bounced a 30.06, and he obviously wasn’t wearing one, as it didn’t imprint, you can’t see any folds or creases in his shirt around such a theoretical plate in the footage of him right before the event.
As to an exit wound, or a bullet being found… I habe not heard of any reports of that.
I am still waiting for an actual autopsy, haven’t heard about one of those either.
Oh god, your update.
Yeah, that is completely fucking impossible, what the fuck.
A 30.06 from front on, going into the neck, just… what, lodged itself just beneath the skin in his collarbone or a vertebrae?
Fucking impossible, a 30.06 at that range would shatter your hip, blow apart your femur.
Absolute horse shit, imo.
Fuck ok, calming down a bit… maybe, maaaaybe that could be possible if this 30.06 round was from a fucking poorly stored, 50 year old bag or box of ammo that has degraded a good deal, but then, you would expect such a round to have way more bullet drop and accuracy dispersion than a proper 30.06 round…
This is fucking ridiculous, where is the goddamned autopsy?
EDIT:
Oh no no no Oh fuck.
If AJ is calling this bullshit, the right wing of this country is going to go to war with itself.
Holy fucking shit.
Bannon doesn’t believe the 'shooter text messages, Candace Owens doesn’t, now AJ doesn’t… oh dear fucking god, the Trump admin, at this point, would have to do a Night of the Long Knives to keep this from literally blowing up in their own faces.
Oh god this is not good.
Yeah idk like I said I’d still be surprised if it did divert, but I’d buy it…if they found it in his lower abdomen lmao not “right under the skin,” that is physically impossible. I’ll sooner believe it diverted into his heart and his heart pumped the bullet back out of his artery haha (also fucking impossible.) Even if they found it in his abdomen that’d be a freak one in a million thing, but this?! This is absolute fantasy!
Even with degraded ammo, yeah this is a hard one for me to buy.
Flaming pile of bullshit, that gives everything else away as also a bunch of bullshit.
false dilemma. it is not “either this guy is 100% right about everything or 100% wrong about everything.” it is definitely possible for him to have made a mistake (which you have not taken the trouble to show, but merely assert) and also provide otherwise correct analysis. your rejection of the entire analysis based on a single mistaken claim (or rather, the unsubstantiated accusation of a single mistaken claim) shows you to be unreasonable.
It doesn’t matter if he’s right or wrong. Making the assertion means he’s an idiot.
You are way too invested in this bullshit. Go touch some grass.
Can you explain to me why you think this way?
Did you even watch the video, or are just quoting my summary of what he says in the video?
… Do you have an extensive catalogue of experience with dofferent exit and entry wounds of different calibers?
Because you absolutely can find general wound size imagery, as he shows, in many guides to, and studies on terminal ballistics and how the human body behaves, reacts to different kinds of calibers.