Mods, if this is too offtopic, or potentially too incendiary a topic, I understand, I just do not know where else to post this.
Further, I fully agree with the sidebar rule here, let us please keep this civil and keep politics out of this to the greatest extent possible.
DISCLAIMER: Please, everyone and anyone, do not consider any of this discussion to be 100% confirmed fact, this is meant for reasoned consideration, not wild speculation nor justifying motivated reasoning of any kind or flavor.
Further: I do not endorse any political views of this guy, but I think his ballistic analysis is worth consideration.
Please at least watch this linked ~20 minute video.
The guy claims to be either a current or former USMC Scout Sniper, and while I cannot confirm this beyond a reasonable doubt… I also do not really have any reason to doubt that he is.
There is also a longer 2 1/2 hour livestream where this guy presumably goes into more detail, which he has linked on his YT vid page.
Essentially, the guy goes through 4 different camera angles.
He explains that the movement of Kirk’s shirt is almost certainly not a result of any kind of body armor as is widely being speculated; instead, it is from how Kirk’s lapel mic and earpiece and the wire for such were affixed to him.
He shows that the earpiece actually was captured flying off of Kirk’s right ear, and that this is what caused the movement of Kirk’s shirt.
But also… he believes that the shot did not come from from straight on.
He believes that the shot came from Kirk’s right, and he believes that the wound which…featured the ‘geyser’ of blood coming out of Kirk’s neck… he believes this was an exit wound, not an entry wound.
He believes that the entry would was somewhere on the right side of roughly Kirk’s jaw, to behind or around his right ear, that the round traversed through Kirk from his right, to his left, and that it likely functionally killed him instantly either by obliteration of the lower brain, or severing of the spinal cord.
He also believes he may have captured a reflection of a muzzle flash, as well as potentially the muzzle flash itself… indicating a shooting position from Kirk’s right… and that the currently most popular and widely accepted (?) idea that the shot came from 150 - 200 yards/meters away, basically from nearly directly in front of Kirk… cannot be the case.
Finally, be believes that the caliber used was not 30.06, that the visible wound is simply too small to indicate a 30.06, that it is more likely a lower caliber round.
At least this is inline with … what I have been able to gather / opinionate based on the published image of what is supposed to be the weapon used in the incident.
Long story short, I think it is more likely that the rifle is not ‘an older Mauser in 30.06’ as officially described, but instead, more likely to be either a Remington 700 or Ruger American, a model from roughly the 80s - 90s - 00s, and that it is likely to be in caliber .270 or .243.
Hopefully I have linked this correctly, here is the start of a comment chain from myself, in another thread, a few days back, when I attempted to analyze the presented image of the weapon being claimed to be the weapon.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21325405
If you would, please discuss in the most objective manner you are capable of.
I know I’m late to this party and I can’t watch the vid on newpipe, but I’ve seen reports of bullets doing some weird shit in the body, like entering in the collarbone and exiting out the leg type weird. Especially rounds like m855a1. It’s theoretically possible that could happen, but still I’d assume it would bounce down rather than up especially if the shot came from a higher angle.
Now, I’m not saying this happened here (actually it most certainly did not lmao), the wound was clearly in his neck (idk what this dude is talking about shirts for) and I couldn’t tell you if it was a .30 cal entrance wound or a .223 v-max exit. I definitely would be interested in knowing where (or if) the bullet was ever found as it could help indicate trajectory, as you mentioned earlier in another comment. Or if it was a through and through it should be pretty clear which hole is which to investigators but I’ve seen no back angles, so… If there is no exit, it could have turned down like those a1s and be stuck in his abdomen, but by now somebody has to know the answers to this.
Edit: The mystery deepens. I looked it up because this got me curious: https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/charlie-kirk-didnt-have-exit-wound-turning-point-spokesperson-says/
What the fuck?! Besides this being a weird as fuck religious article, the claim is they found the bullet “just beneath the skin” because his bones were adamantium?! That’s less believable than the bullet squirreling out like an a1!
Lol even ALEX FUCKING JONES is calling this bullshit https://www.rawstory.com/alex-jones-superman-kirk-bullet/
Its true that what I described, and you described, the… under the skin, wild bullet trajectory thing…
Yes, that can happen.
But not with a 30.06 hitting the sternum straight on, no fucking way, that bullet is too heavy and going too fast, it would crack through the sternum, deform, maybe splinter off a bit, maybe those bits could do weird shit, but no way man, I do not see a 30.06 bouncing off of, or internally tracing around a human sternum, above or below the skin.
A 30.06 at ~150 yards will blow apart a cinder block.
He’d have a sucking chest wound, and almost certainly a massive blow out exit wound on his back.
5.56? M855A1? Sure, I could believe that could do the internal sternum bounce thing.
Not a 30.06 though, just go run the kinetic energy numbers comparing those two rounds, velocity and mass.
M855A1 5.56x45mm:
https://www.wideners.com/blog/m855a1-enhanced-performance-round/
KE at ~ 150 yards = ~ 950 FT/LBs
30.06 Springfield:
https://www.wideners.com/blog/30-06-vs-30-30/
KE at ~ 150 yards = ~ 2200 FT/LBs
Yeah, yeah thats more than twice as much energy in a 30.06 as a 5.56 at that range, its gonna just punch right through his sternum, maybe it could bounce off of his spinal column and then do wacky shit, but then we would have all seen blood starting to come out of his chest.
Only level 4 plate could possibly have bounced a 30.06, and he obviously wasn’t wearing one, as it didn’t imprint, you can’t see any folds or creases in his shirt around such a theoretical plate in the footage of him right before the event.
As to an exit wound, or a bullet being found… I habe not heard of any reports of that.
I am still waiting for an actual autopsy, haven’t heard about one of those either.
Oh god, your update.
Yeah, that is completely fucking impossible, what the fuck.
A 30.06 from front on, going into the neck, just… what, lodged itself just beneath the skin in his collarbone or a vertebrae?
Fucking impossible, a 30.06 at that range would shatter your hip, blow apart your femur.
Absolute horse shit, imo.
Fuck ok, calming down a bit… maybe, maaaaybe that could be possible if this 30.06 round was from a fucking poorly stored, 50 year old bag or box of ammo that has degraded a good deal, but then, you would expect such a round to have way more bullet drop and accuracy dispersion than a proper 30.06 round…
This is fucking ridiculous, where is the goddamned autopsy?
EDIT:
Oh no no no Oh fuck.
If AJ is calling this bullshit, the right wing of this country is going to go to war with itself.
Holy fucking shit.
Bannon doesn’t believe the 'shooter text messages, Candace Owens doesn’t, now AJ doesn’t… oh dear fucking god, the Trump admin, at this point, would have to do a Night of the Long Knives to keep this from literally blowing up in their own faces.
Oh god this is not good.
Yeah idk like I said I’d still be surprised if it did divert, but I’d buy it…if they found it in his lower abdomen lmao not “right under the skin,” that is physically impossible. I’ll sooner believe it diverted into his heart and his heart pumped the bullet back out of his artery haha (also fucking impossible.) Even if they found it in his abdomen that’d be a freak one in a million thing, but this?! This is absolute fantasy!
Even with degraded ammo, yeah this is a hard one for me to buy.
I did an edit while you were doing an edit, uh, yeah, this is really fucking bad from a standpoint of likely immediate or near immediate crackdown of federal forces on … their own base dissenting, everyone else dissenting… they’re gonna have to rewrite a lot of history in real time and/or silence a lot of people.
Fuck.
Idk, I’m thinking this is just going to be another JFK situation where the truth never really comes out. Like, Allen Dulles is just going to rise from his grave and say “magic bullet” and that’s all we get until someone writes a book 40yr later saying “actually it was probably an accident by
the secret servicehis security and they covered up their incompetence,” and everyone just goes “Huh, neat. Anyway…”Yeah, there are more and more and more guntubers, many of them ex SF or some kind of sniper, making videos on … none of this makes any fucking sense.
I guess I am glad to be in the company of an ex Green Beret, who also does not believe the shot that hit Kirk could be from a 30.06.
Gotta respect subject matter expertise, a Green Beret probably knows something about guns.
Oh boy.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=e2cv9DSt538
And here’s him on the ‘man of steel’ bullshit, from today.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=onElfDyeoks
Current top comment is something like REMEMBER 63 AND THE MAGIC BULLET.
So we have already achieved JFK status.
Haha yeah I like how nobody but jesus freaks are buying this.
In my experience that is generally a good sign that an idea is … well, quite literally, beyond rational belief, requiring cognitive dissonance, magical thinking, to be taken seriously.
Yeah that about sums it up lmao. Hell tbh I bet even the christians I talk to regularly will call bullshit on this, I can’t wait to see what they say!