Yeah but Luke Skywalker is white.
…that’s all you need. :|
Cracker farm-boy Luke Skywalker, Nazi poster boy blond hair, blue eyes.
Oddly played by the polar opposite in Mark Hamill.
He’s good at that with Joker too.
Coz Luke is white, bro. Imagine if they did everything the same, nothing changes in star wars, except Luke and Obi Wan are changed to black and brown guys.
How many of these people would still love the movie?
Skywalker and the rebellion only attacked combatants. Big difference there.
That’s movie niceness. There’s another faction of the rebellion they comes up a few times that has no such qualms.
Also are you really telling me everyone on the death star and whatever planet in the sequels was a combatant
are you really telling me everyone on the death star and whatever planet in the sequels was a combatant
He raises fair points but also the contractors would likely know what they were working on this time around (that it was a planet killing weapon)
Even the nice server in the canteen who told Lord Vader he’d need a tray for his penne arrabbiata because the plate was hot?
Vader drops the plate because it’s too hot
“NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO”
“You’ll need a tray…”
“It’s a tra…y”
There will always be extremists, but that doesn’t make it their core policy. And also, most extremism is guerilla from the other side, so false flags.
It’s literally impossible for there not to some faction that goes against the norm, that’s just human nature. Doubly so when it’s a well established and common espionage tactic.
It’s not movie niceness, it’s how real life is so most know to ignore it, since it’s likely the enemies doing it anyways. And if not, how is it proved?
So so you apply the same logic to real life “terrorists”?
That’s how things works, yes.
There’s a difference between utilizing and agreeing with extremists, which they aren’t doing, and trying to charge them with war crimes and distancing themselves, which they are doing.
Just because someone on the left shoots someone on the right doesn’t make every left a murderer. This is the logic you’re applying here, and isn’t how life or anything works. You are just wrong here.
There’s a reason you’re using the word terrorist instead of Rebel or Imperial, now isn’t that weird? Why separate them if they aren’t different…?
Wanting to kill all lefts because of the actions of one that goes against the group makes you the bad guy, you understand this very simple concept yeah?
I don’t know who you’re arguing against, but it ain’t me
The people rebuilding the Death Star weren’t combatants.
Also, didn’t Stellan Skarsgard do some morally questionable shit in Andor?
The people rebuilding the Death Star weren’t combatants.
WTF? Of course they are.
Anyone working on a military base during a war is a combatant. They are contributing directly to the war effort.
In a society committed to total war, that argument can be used against civilians.
Ukraine is attacking Russia’s oil infrastructure because it is funding the Russian war machine. They are valid targets, despite being run by civilians. I wish them good hunting.
So you say there was no independent contractors building Death Star in Return of the Jedi ?
They knew what they were signing up for.
Did they tho? Empire’s propaganda has near endless resources and reach.
If you work on a military installation during a war, you shouldn’t be surprised to find yourself in the middle of an attack.
Exactly - we’ve allowed our government(s) to dilute the definition of terrorism through constant misuse. It’s not terrorism to attack military targets, even if the attacker is a stateless actor. Similarly, it is terrorism to attack civilians, even when perpetrated by a government. Terrorism is not simply a catch-all term for unsanctioned violence.
So you’re saying the state of Israel is terrorists?
I’m saying that many governments today and throughout history have committed acts of terrorism, including Israel and the US, as well as their opponents.
Are you saying they aren’t?
No 😂
I am.
Saw Gererra would like a word.
The extremist that they want nothing to do with…? That’s helping their case by bringing them up.
Yeah, the Rebellion we are shown through its heroes are not terrorists, they are a guerilla army. They don’t want to break the Empire through citizen revolt after sowing mass unrest; they make precision strikes on military infrastructure and assassinate critical Imperial officials.
But there must’ve been a death star canteen, yeah? There must’ve been a cafeteria downstairs.
There are chefs and janitors on aircraft carriers.
I want the penne all’arrabbiata.
You’ll need a tray
This one’s wet…
When the Rebels establish themselves in planets like Hoth or in the moon of Endor, do you think they don’t subjugate the locals?
There was nothing of the kind in the movies, so that’s just speculation on your part.
It hits different when you personally know stormtroopers.
Are you saying/implying they joined because they were forced to due to socio-economic hardships and very few joined because they supported fascism? Or was it the other way around?
Yes.
The Empire vs the Rebellion wasn’t black and white anyway. There was good and bad on both sides.
In newer Star Wars (especially stuff like Andor), I agree. In old Star Wars (especially episode IV-VI), no. These movies are 100% black and white.
The most grey character that exists in there is Darth Vater who’s whole life of horrible atrocities was forgiven within 2 minutes because he betrayed space Hitler and was the Hero’s dad.
Nah, I never forgave Anakin for killing the younglings. He doesn’t come back from that. Period.
tbf, betraying space hitler to end the war…
In Episodes IV-VI, I think the Empire was portrayed as bad mainly due to their execution of power.
I think the Empire’s ideals of order and stability don’t seem so bad in theory. Even the Mandolorian TV show (which was set around that time) supports this perspective.
You think so? What about the Empire do you think was portrayed as good in Episode IV-VI?
In Episode IV-VI, the Empire is a classic evil-only organization. Nothing about them is portrayed in any way as good. The execution of power, the domination of the population. Destroying whole planets just as an interrogation tactic. Randomly murdering people all over.
Order and stability aren’t even on their list of goals at all. If you lived on Alderaan or Cloud City, would you say that you are getting order and stability? You mind your business, follow the laws, are a good citizen and suddenly your planet gets blown up together with everyone you love, just because some high-ranking military leader can’t get the answer they like from some high-ranking politician. Nothing about that is order and stability.
Same story for Aunt May and Uncle Owen. They did nothing wrong. They didn’t fight the empire, they weren’t rebellious. They got killed just because, for no actual reason. What’s order and stability about that?
The only ideals the Empire has is that the dictator and the military are dominating everyone else, they can do whatever they want and will not face any consequences for anything.
They were meant as a literal representation of the Nazis but in space, and I think they hit that portrayal quite well. Same as their real-life model, the Empire is not about order and stability at all. They use terms like that, but it’s not what they are actually about.
I never said they were “good”. I said there is good and bad on both sides.
The Galactic Empire was based on Nazi Germany. The name “Stormtrooper” literally comes from the German Imperial Army.
My point is that the Empire’s goal is order and stability through domination. Darth Vader even said to Luke in Episode V:
“Join me and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy.”
Just like the nazis tried to end destructive conflict and bring order to the world.
Not.
Order and stability means rule of law: Everyone knows the rules and if you follow them you will be safe. Stability is predictability.
Both the empire and the nazis went completely against that, purposely. The “order” they want to bring is “I am king and you are nothing”. It means if you are higher up you can do whatever you want without any consequences at all.
The result of that is that there is no order and stability for the common people, and not even for the higher ups that aren’t on the top of the food chain. The Führer just needs to have a bad day and suddenly the’s going to force choke you to death.
Nazis (and also the empire) use double speak extensively. They say “order and stability” but mean "fear and insecurity.
Remember, they are the ones who put “Arbeit macht frei” (“work makes free”) on top of the entrance to the concentration camps that were death camps camouflaged as labour camps. The only freedom these camps brought was death.
That’s a good way of looking at it. The Galactic Empire was definitely reminiscent of a certain 1940s regime. But don’t forget:
Many characters (especially in the spinoff shows) preferred the Empire because the republic was a bit of a shit show. War and chaos was everywhere, and the senate was gridlocked. Nothing got done because of endless debates.
The Empire also secured trade routes, improved infrastructure, and lowered crime rates (at first).
The rebels, on the other hand were terrorists. Blowing up military installations, raiding imperial supply lines, and assaulting officials. To people who weren’t suffering under the empire, the rebels looked like dangerous extremists.
The spinoffs do a great job at demonstrating how people internalise propaganda.
“I’m iust savin’, somewhere someone in this galaxy is ruling and others are being ruled. I mean, look at your race. Do you think all those people that died in wars fought by Mandalorians actually had a choice? So how are they any different than the Empire? If you were born on Mandalore, you believe one thing, if you’re born on Alderaan, ou believe somethin else.” - Migs Mayfeld.
The virtue of stability is entirely dependent on the virtue of the system you are stabilizing.
One person’s freedom fighter is another person’s terrorist
Yea no, it was white and white 😐
Most people just watch movies for fun, they don’t think about it.
You should watch them with my son, the film studies major. I try to discuss that cool violent scene, and he wants to discuss the existential nature of the antagonist’s motivation or something.
But that’s different. Luke is white.
Still people idolise darth vador…
@Deceptichum Yup, he’s white as they come.
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