So did the other allies, do you suddenly like capitalist countries?
Oh and let’s not ignore the Soviets allying with Nazi Germany to annex Poland. If the Nazi’s never declared on them, would the Soviets have attacked them first?
I’m going to be honest here, that alone is generally enough to make me downvote, ignore, and move on. However I respect that you’ve written a detailed historical response, which is the only reason I’m going to reply as I am.
I’ve had this debate too many times with tankies and it goes nowhere. The time and effort I could invest into replying to paragraph upon paragraph of text would yield nothing of value, and as I have seen time and time again we would both walk away without any difference of historical opinion. So I apologise but I’m not going to sit here and waste what could be an hour or more of my time sourcing and counter-arguing what I feel is a futile endeavour. And if I may offer some advice, conciseness is more respectful of ones time rather than the wall-of-text approach.
I will say that I fully acknowledge that Soviet troops were monumental in defeating Nazi Germany, but this was not in a vacuum and without the contributions of the other Allies and programs such as Lend-Lease the Soviets would have also not have achieved what they did. As for the Poland stuff, I heavily disagree, and I’ll leave it at that.
I respect and appreciate Lend-Lease, I can’t tell if it saved the war, but it certainly saved hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives by providing much-needed humanitary assistance in hunger-struck WW2 USSR.
Almost all of the trucks used by the Soviet Military were US-made trucks delivered through that lend-lease program. I would guess that the ability to bring fuel and ammo to the front did help the Soviet Army quite some bit!
It is of course possible they could have won bringing the ammo to the front with horses instead of trucks, but honestly – I doubt they would have made it.
Hm, I should have actually quoted just the sentence “I respect and appreciate Lend-Lease, I can’t tell if it saved the war” because that’s what I was actually referring to. Sorry :)
Because it is very clear that it did save the war. Having lived in Germany, Finland, the Russia, and Ukraine, I hear a lot of that “~Soviet Union~the Russia did it practically all by itself”, which is extremely contrafactual. And hurts the Russia, as they don’t understand what their “možem povtorit’” actually holds to it…
But, it does seem that you and me very largely agree about things, so all in all things are just fine, no worries :)
Cool, I don’t like capitalist states even when they’re a broken clock sometimes.
Likewise I don’t like Britain and France, so I’m happy not to ignore them, nor do I think they would have invaded to stop the genocide if not for the invasion of Poland.
You seem to be deflecting and arguing against a liberal instead of an anarchist. Better luck next time.
At this point I’m genuinely confused why you asked the question in the first place. What answer were you looking for? Because last I checked the Allies, who collectively stopped the fascists, were an alliance between state entities. Specifically, between capitalist states and the USSR. But you “don’t like” either of those, even when they’re fighting the Nazis!
Why would you ask a rhetorical question to lead people to an answer you disagree with? Christ, the brainworms are beyond my ability to detangle.
Your little gotcha’s didn’t land, so now you’re going back to square one?
I was asking because the answer was the use of force - not waiting until the mid-terms to vote in what will most likely be the most rigged election in US history. A answer I feel most people understood, but of course you had to try and shoehorn in ‘the soviets were great’ which isn’t surprising from you lot.
Either way I’m done replying now, you can simp for genocidal authoritarians to someone else.
If the use of force alone was enough, the Nazis never would’ve come to power. There were plenty of people willing to face them in the streets and match their violence, far more than there are in the US today.
But it’s obvious that you just want to exchange snipes and have zero interest in actually learning anything from history, so you will continue to repeat the mistakes of the past. Even when the fascists are at your doorstep, you’ll still be punching left, and demanding everyone follow incoherent and dysfunctional ideas because you can’t be assed to read theory, study history, or engage with anyone beyond snipes and memes.
Well, the evil red fash tankies you hate so much made enormous sacrifices and contributions in order to bring them down.
So did the other allies, do you suddenly like capitalist countries?
Oh and let’s not ignore the Soviets allying with Nazi Germany to annex Poland. If the Nazi’s never declared on them, would the Soviets have attacked them first?
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I’m going to be honest here, that alone is generally enough to make me downvote, ignore, and move on. However I respect that you’ve written a detailed historical response, which is the only reason I’m going to reply as I am.
I’ve had this debate too many times with tankies and it goes nowhere. The time and effort I could invest into replying to paragraph upon paragraph of text would yield nothing of value, and as I have seen time and time again we would both walk away without any difference of historical opinion. So I apologise but I’m not going to sit here and waste what could be an hour or more of my time sourcing and counter-arguing what I feel is a futile endeavour. And if I may offer some advice, conciseness is more respectful of ones time rather than the wall-of-text approach.
I will say that I fully acknowledge that Soviet troops were monumental in defeating Nazi Germany, but this was not in a vacuum and without the contributions of the other Allies and programs such as Lend-Lease the Soviets would have also not have achieved what they did. As for the Poland stuff, I heavily disagree, and I’ll leave it at that.
deleted by creator
Almost all of the trucks used by the Soviet Military were US-made trucks delivered through that lend-lease program. I would guess that the ability to bring fuel and ammo to the front did help the Soviet Army quite some bit!
It is of course possible they could have won bringing the ammo to the front with horses instead of trucks, but honestly – I doubt they would have made it.
deleted by creator
Hm, I should have actually quoted just the sentence “I respect and appreciate Lend-Lease, I can’t tell if it saved the war” because that’s what I was actually referring to. Sorry :)
Because it is very clear that it did save the war. Having lived in Germany, Finland, the Russia, and Ukraine, I hear a lot of that “~Soviet Union~the Russia did it practically all by itself”, which is extremely contrafactual. And hurts the Russia, as they don’t understand what their “možem povtorit’” actually holds to it…
But, it does seem that you and me very largely agree about things, so all in all things are just fine, no worries :)
deleted by creator
I like them when they’re killing Nazis, yes.
Oh and let’s not ignore Britain and France allying with Nazi Germany to give them the Sudetanland.
If the Nazis had never declared on the Allies, would they have attacked them first? Is there a point to this counterfactual?
Cool, I don’t like capitalist states even when they’re a broken clock sometimes.
Likewise I don’t like Britain and France, so I’m happy not to ignore them, nor do I think they would have invaded to stop the genocide if not for the invasion of Poland.
You seem to be deflecting and arguing against a liberal instead of an anarchist. Better luck next time.
At this point I’m genuinely confused why you asked the question in the first place. What answer were you looking for? Because last I checked the Allies, who collectively stopped the fascists, were an alliance between state entities. Specifically, between capitalist states and the USSR. But you “don’t like” either of those, even when they’re fighting the Nazis!
Why would you ask a rhetorical question to lead people to an answer you disagree with? Christ, the brainworms are beyond my ability to detangle.
Your little gotcha’s didn’t land, so now you’re going back to square one?
I was asking because the answer was the use of force - not waiting until the mid-terms to vote in what will most likely be the most rigged election in US history. A answer I feel most people understood, but of course you had to try and shoehorn in ‘the soviets were great’ which isn’t surprising from you lot.
Either way I’m done replying now, you can simp for genocidal authoritarians to someone else.
If the use of force alone was enough, the Nazis never would’ve come to power. There were plenty of people willing to face them in the streets and match their violence, far more than there are in the US today.
But it’s obvious that you just want to exchange snipes and have zero interest in actually learning anything from history, so you will continue to repeat the mistakes of the past. Even when the fascists are at your doorstep, you’ll still be punching left, and demanding everyone follow incoherent and dysfunctional ideas because you can’t be assed to read theory, study history, or engage with anyone beyond snipes and memes.