Bytemeister’s anecdote related an example of his personal altruism. Which, I assure you, makes him the rare exception rather than the rule. Most people would not care or go out of their way to do that much or even think about it at all.
That does not contradict his statement that you cannot base a society entirely off of the expectation that everyone will always be that caring and altruistic to the point where we can all rely on and expect the altruism of others to always be able to meet our personal needs.
Bytemeister can simultaneously be altruistic himself, while acknowledging that the average member of society is not altruistic enough to make a system like that work for any length of time.
I don’t even think it was that altruistic. I have a saw, and a ladder. I could have risked myself to try to remove the tree and fix up the roof… Not to mention the potential lawsuits from screwing it up, since I’m not trained in tree removal or roof repairs, or getting arrested for trespass for messing around in a house I don’t own.
I put in an amount of effort to satisfy my own concerns about how devasted I would be if my house was destroyed and no one even lifted a finger to let me know about it before I got home.
Some empathy is normal, but I don’t think my level of empathy is, and I’m certain that there isn’t enough for an anarchist society to exist at a scale larger than a few thousand people.
I think would rather enjoy living in an equitable society where everyone helps everyone else, and there is no property, but as soon as your society needs to have modern amenities (water, sanitation, electricity, roads, etc) setup or repaired, you’re going to involve a chain of people so large to support that infrastructure that your society will extend beyond it’s stable size.
Empathy among one’s in-group is certainly normal. Even hitler loved his dog. But empathy for one’s out-group is a rare exception. And it’s not altruism unless it encompasses one’s out-group.
I think your vision of a potential society seems nice. And that it would only be possible to establish and maintain to assure perpetuity if there is some formalized system of governance to define precisely how aid is rendered, how needs are met, and what the mutual rights and obligations of each member entail.
Which, I assure you, makes him the rare exception rather than the rule.
Using someone unnecessarily peppering insults into all their responses to people who disagree them as a “rare example of someone who cares” is an odd choice.
They don’t care enough to be civil with people they disagree with and even they can be altruistic. How much more altruistic can we expect all the people who don’t insult everyone who disagrees with them to be?
I didn’t see him peppering his comments with insults. Do you think disagreement and criticism is the same thing as an insult? Besides, the person he was mainly arguing with was being unnecessarily hostile right from the start. If anything, he was the one peppering insults. I don’t blame Bytemeister for getting exasperated with that.
How much more altruistic can we expect all the people who don’t insult everyone who disagrees with them to be?
Do you… do you believe those people are the norm? If so, I’d love to live in your country because it sounds quite pleasant.
didn’t see him peppering his comments with insults
“I didn’t happen”
If anything, he was the one peppering insults. I don’t blame Bytemeister for getting exasperated with that.
“But if it did, they deserved it.”
You might want to pick a lane before you reply so you don’t undermine our own point.
Do you think disagreement and criticism is the same thing as an insult?
Do you think this is “Criticism and disagreement”?:
No, I’m saying that your reading comprehension abilities and your lofty ideals of a utopian society where no one needs property and everyone contributes as best they’re able with no concern for getting value out of an exchange proportional to the effort put in, is indicative of a failed home-school education and a lack of real world experience.
do you believe those people are the norm?
They are. Don’t get distracted by the fact that you’ll see 1 or 2 people in a thread being rude to each other and everyone else. Just because they are loud and posting replies to everybody doesn’t make them the majority of people.
You’re being so disingenuous right now. I need to remind myself more often to stop feeding the trolls.
And yes, if someone is arguing in bad faith with a combination of strawman, red herring, and sealion arguments, then it’s perfectly valid to address their comprehension and the success or failure of their education
This is an “every accusation is a confession” situation isn’t it? Can’t even call an obvious insult an insult but will accuse others of arguing in bad faith.
Bytemeister’s anecdote related an example of his personal altruism. Which, I assure you, makes him the rare exception rather than the rule. Most people would not care or go out of their way to do that much or even think about it at all.
That does not contradict his statement that you cannot base a society entirely off of the expectation that everyone will always be that caring and altruistic to the point where we can all rely on and expect the altruism of others to always be able to meet our personal needs.
Bytemeister can simultaneously be altruistic himself, while acknowledging that the average member of society is not altruistic enough to make a system like that work for any length of time.
I don’t even think it was that altruistic. I have a saw, and a ladder. I could have risked myself to try to remove the tree and fix up the roof… Not to mention the potential lawsuits from screwing it up, since I’m not trained in tree removal or roof repairs, or getting arrested for trespass for messing around in a house I don’t own.
I put in an amount of effort to satisfy my own concerns about how devasted I would be if my house was destroyed and no one even lifted a finger to let me know about it before I got home.
That’s because you have empathy. Which makes you an exception, not the norm.
Some empathy is normal, but I don’t think my level of empathy is, and I’m certain that there isn’t enough for an anarchist society to exist at a scale larger than a few thousand people.
I think would rather enjoy living in an equitable society where everyone helps everyone else, and there is no property, but as soon as your society needs to have modern amenities (water, sanitation, electricity, roads, etc) setup or repaired, you’re going to involve a chain of people so large to support that infrastructure that your society will extend beyond it’s stable size.
Empathy among one’s in-group is certainly normal. Even hitler loved his dog. But empathy for one’s out-group is a rare exception. And it’s not altruism unless it encompasses one’s out-group.
I think your vision of a potential society seems nice. And that it would only be possible to establish and maintain to assure perpetuity if there is some formalized system of governance to define precisely how aid is rendered, how needs are met, and what the mutual rights and obligations of each member entail.
Using someone unnecessarily peppering insults into all their responses to people who disagree them as a “rare example of someone who cares” is an odd choice.
They don’t care enough to be civil with people they disagree with and even they can be altruistic. How much more altruistic can we expect all the people who don’t insult everyone who disagrees with them to be?
I didn’t see him peppering his comments with insults. Do you think disagreement and criticism is the same thing as an insult? Besides, the person he was mainly arguing with was being unnecessarily hostile right from the start. If anything, he was the one peppering insults. I don’t blame Bytemeister for getting exasperated with that.
Do you… do you believe those people are the norm? If so, I’d love to live in your country because it sounds quite pleasant.
“I didn’t happen”
“But if it did, they deserved it.”
You might want to pick a lane before you reply so you don’t undermine our own point.
Do you think this is “Criticism and disagreement”?:
They are. Don’t get distracted by the fact that you’ll see 1 or 2 people in a thread being rude to each other and everyone else. Just because they are loud and posting replies to everybody doesn’t make them the majority of people.
You’re being so disingenuous right now. I need to remind myself more often to stop feeding the trolls.
And yes, if someone is arguing in bad faith with a combination of strawman, red herring, and sealion arguments, then it’s perfectly valid to address their comprehension and the success or failure of their education
This is an “every accusation is a confession” situation isn’t it? Can’t even call an obvious insult an insult but will accuse others of arguing in bad faith.
Be gone, troll