it would be quite presumptuous of you to decide whether or not the order is lawful.
Literally Nazi logic.
The rails are already blown. We’re not getting rid of these fuckers without playing by their rules. Once that’s taken care of we can work on strengthening the safeguards that will prevent that in the future.
With clearly immoral ones, sure. ACAB, fuck 🧊, fuck people bombing civilians, fuck people evicting the destitute. They should know that they’re playing a part in atrocities. They should disobey such commands.
But for the government workers further down the pecking order, it can be hard to tell their part in the big picture. If it’s less obvious, even if the legality is questionable, that’s harder for a layperson to decide. Without a high-level view (particularly if that view is discussed behind closed doors and only gets out much later), individual orders may seem benign.
Edit: I should clarify that I’m not condoning blind obedience. I’m acknowledging that a lot of people work that way, and it would be reckless to ignore that factor in planning any kind of action.
In a working (representative) democracy (which we both agree isn’t the case), the courts should strike illegal ones down and the representatives should stop those that threaten the people. If neither happens, it’s easier for the worker to assume that what they’re told is in line with the democratic will and that they’re doing the right thing. Crucially, that requires them to assume that their chain of command actually is legitimised by the democratic process:
An elected president, governor, mayor or town council member, even if fucked up, has a democratic mandate. Someone claiming command without such a mandate will have a harder time being respected.
Hence, it’s important that whatever comes after the fascists is confirmed by democratic election. The election alone might not fix things, but you’re not gonna make any fix stick without either an election to legitimise it or a thorough repression apparatus silencing all dissent, Stalin style.
The rails are already blown.
Are elections still a thing? Are offices at least ostensibly being appointed by popular vote? Then the rails of my metaphor still exist. The conductors are fascists, but so far, they haven’t managed to completely dismantle the notion that government should be installed by the people.
“Blowing up the rails” here would mean appointing non-elected people to the offices that the fascists previously holding them have “vacated”.
We’re not getting rid of these fuckers without playing by their rules.
No argument from me there; my argument is focused entirely on what happens after they have been gotten rid of.
Once that’s taken care of we can work on strengthening the safeguards that will prevent that in the future.
And on this point, my advice is to prepare those safeguards already. Whatever form “taken care of” might take will cause disruption, and while people have some patience for it, stabilising the result will require limiting it as far as possible to make it clear that you’re not their enemy, just the fascists’.
So once the latter have been disposed of, the transition to a new, orderly and (actually) democratic system should happen as swiftly and with as little additional disruption as possible. That’s what I mean with having new rails ready.
Literally Nazi logic.
The rails are already blown. We’re not getting rid of these fuckers without playing by their rules. Once that’s taken care of we can work on strengthening the safeguards that will prevent that in the future.
With clearly immoral ones, sure. ACAB, fuck 🧊, fuck people bombing civilians, fuck people evicting the destitute. They should know that they’re playing a part in atrocities. They should disobey such commands.
But for the government workers further down the pecking order, it can be hard to tell their part in the big picture. If it’s less obvious, even if the legality is questionable, that’s harder for a layperson to decide. Without a high-level view (particularly if that view is discussed behind closed doors and only gets out much later), individual orders may seem benign.
Edit: I should clarify that I’m not condoning blind obedience. I’m acknowledging that a lot of people work that way, and it would be reckless to ignore that factor in planning any kind of action.
In a working (representative) democracy (which we both agree isn’t the case), the courts should strike illegal ones down and the representatives should stop those that threaten the people. If neither happens, it’s easier for the worker to assume that what they’re told is in line with the democratic will and that they’re doing the right thing. Crucially, that requires them to assume that their chain of command actually is legitimised by the democratic process:
An elected president, governor, mayor or town council member, even if fucked up, has a democratic mandate. Someone claiming command without such a mandate will have a harder time being respected.
Hence, it’s important that whatever comes after the fascists is confirmed by democratic election. The election alone might not fix things, but you’re not gonna make any fix stick without either an election to legitimise it or a thorough repression apparatus silencing all dissent, Stalin style.
Are elections still a thing? Are offices at least ostensibly being appointed by popular vote? Then the rails of my metaphor still exist. The conductors are fascists, but so far, they haven’t managed to completely dismantle the notion that government should be installed by the people.
“Blowing up the rails” here would mean appointing non-elected people to the offices that the fascists previously holding them have “vacated”.
No argument from me there; my argument is focused entirely on what happens after they have been gotten rid of.
And on this point, my advice is to prepare those safeguards already. Whatever form “taken care of” might take will cause disruption, and while people have some patience for it, stabilising the result will require limiting it as far as possible to make it clear that you’re not their enemy, just the fascists’.
So once the latter have been disposed of, the transition to a new, orderly and (actually) democratic system should happen as swiftly and with as little additional disruption as possible. That’s what I mean with having new rails ready.