So what about the 90% of the population that cannot be fed through subsistence agriculture?
You think people like this, think about people like them?
You don’t need an economy to mutually aid.
I’m anti-civ postie Egoist and im having a hard time grasping what exactly you mean by “an economy”
If goods move from person to person, that’s an economy
If you simply mean “no markets” I could get it, but “no economy” means no communal resources or anything.
You can’t do mutual-aid if the only aid being produced consists of nothing plus fancy speeches.
Cool and a shitty meme is not a fancy speech.
I don’t get why you’re rallying to defend . . . money?
You maybe wanna take a look at this… and tell me what it is you see?
Probably reading too much into this meme again but agorists don’t want to eliminate money or the economy. Instead, they want to transition society into a free market where all relations are voluntary exchanges within a counter-establishment economy. In this framework, currencies other than state-controlled ones are fine to use.
IMO, agorism is basically an attempt to make anarcho-capitalism appealing to left-wing anarchists, and simultaneously an attempt to make leftism palatable to anarcho-capitalists. Agorism is…kinda ass. It’s not really good at being anarcho-capitalist or anarchist. If you really need to keep your markets, look into mutualism IMO. Or just realize that even “free” markets naturally lead to the development of unjustifiable hierarchies 😉.
Consider this my penance for being an “”“anarcho”“”-capitalist when I was in high school and I actually read all this crap 🤮.
You seem like a knowledgeable person, so I’ll bother you with an unsolicited question! Congratulations, do not resist.
I have read a lot that I like about anarchism, socialism, communism, and other -isms. It feels worthwhile to narrow down my own leftist identity, but I’m struggling with how to do that.
I feel like it might be necessary to identify both my ideal society, and the most reasonably achievable one towards which to work. Any tips?
“At The Cafe” by Errico Malasta and the documentary “Living In Utopia” which is on Zoe Baker’s youtube channel were what made me hop the fence from being a council communist to an anarcho-communist. It was my starting point, so maybe it would be a good starting point for you. Pyotr Kropotkin is also a great source for anarchist theory, like “Conquest of Bread” and “Mutual Aid.” If you want someone more recent then I hear Murray Bookchin is pretty good, although I haven’t gotten around to reading anything by him yet. And as someone else mentioned, Anarchist Library is a great place to look for pretty much anything anarchist related. You’ll likely find any of the books I mentioned there for free.
Thank you very much for the leads - I’ll follow them and see where I end up.
IMO the most important thing is to read theory, read the history of leftist movements, and use good research practices. Just keep reading critically, try to follow the authors’ arguments, and internalize the things you understand and like. Also, it’s more important to build up a coherent worldview than it is to fall into a specific ideological box.
For anarchist literature, The Anarchist Library is an incredibly diverse resource of often contradicting viewpoints, whereas the Anarchist FAQ is (in my view) an excellent first place to look for detailed explanations for commonly asked questions. In my view, the Anarchist Library is an excellent example of how it is important to develop your own worldview. Because the most anarchist/communist/socialist/leftist thing anyone could possibly do is loudly and vehemently disagree about something with someone who otherwise agrees with you 99.99%.
IMO, this is legitimately how progress is made, by exploring the space of ideas. And that means that every once in a while, there’s going to be some ridiculous take from someone who is otherwise on your team who’s trying to explore that space of anarchist possibilities. So even when drawing from resources you typically agree with, it is so important to think and read critically.
For Marxist and state-socialist literature I’m honestly a lot less informed since…well…I’m an anarchist and I’m going to disagree with statist Marxists on a lot of issues. But when I do need to look up some non-anarchist literature, Marxists.org usually has what I need.
Thank you very much - I appreciate it. I have perused the anarchist library but only shallowly. There’s so much to read from each of these groups!
If you don’t mind, I’d love to chime in with my own perspective :)
My path to anarchist ideas was pretty organic. I grew up in a rural area, lots of farmers, my school was just a short walk away, and most of our food was locally grown or raised. It struck me that even if the government had suddenly disappeared, our community probably would have been okay. We already relied so much on each other.
I’m not here to tell you what to believe or what label to adopt. Over the past four years, I’ve done a lot of reading and reflecting myself, and what helped me the most was trying to apply different leftist ideas to the place I knew best, my own hometown. That process helped me figure out what might actually work for the people there and for me, that led to anarchism.
So I’d suggest doing something similar: take the ideas you’ve encountered from socialists, communists, anarchists, or whereever and ask yourself “If we did this and this, could this work?” “If we stopped using money in these areas and these areas, could that work?” Even just exploring things like reducing reliance on money in certain areas can be revealing. (It’s worth noting that many anarchist ideas hinge on an optimistic view of human nature, but that’s a whole other conversation.)
At the end of the day, if you’re trying to identify both an ideal society and a realistic path toward it, I think the key is understanding that socialism, whatever shape it takes, requires a culture built on cooperation. That has to come first.
I very much appreciate your (and everyone’s) generous replies.
I see so much waste in the consumer world and I hate it. From little stuff like “why does every house in my neighborhood need a lawn mower and a crockpot and camping equipment - we could easily timeshare it” to being forced by urban planning to choose individual cars over public transit and sharing rides.
Don’t.
Leftists get bogged down in being a fourth wave posadist and reading theory over doing praxis and working towards the change. You can work out the minor details if and when it happens.
Don’t pigeonhole and label yourself. Ask yourself questions, “What do I think is a problem? What do I think is a solution? How can I work towards it?”
Don’t
Leftists get bogged down in being a fourth wave posadist and reading theory over doing praxis and working towards the change.
This is true and I’m definitely guilty of reading too much into stuff and not doing enough stuff… hence why I’m laying in bed procrastinating on the stuff I’m supposed to be doing… but I do think that some theory is really important to have. Like, what are we aiming for, why did some projects fail and others succeed, what are the common pitfalls and how can we spot them, and how can we better refine our arguments for the rare times we do get a platform?
This is a meme you could have kept to yourself.