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“don’t agree with trans people” on what topic? which star trek is best? emacs vs vim? coffee vs tea?
finish the fucking sentence, asshole
Don’t push the vim agenda. You’re just unable to exit.
All trans persons I know choose vim. So yeah, emacs is kinda gay
I’m trans and gay. A real man only needs sed and awk.
deleted by creator
Could be worse, they could be part of the “I don’t believe in (insert verifiable fact)” crowd.
Literally just replace “trans” with any other queer identity and see how that sound you bozo.
Bi and Ace erasure are sadly pretty common… (not a competition or anything, just saying)
*puts on blue wig* No but you see bis are just indecisive and you can’t know whether you’re ace before you’ve tried and once you’ve tried you’ve had sex and can’t be ace so they don’t exist anyway. Also it’s only pan if you’re from Greece if you’re from Italy and call yourself pan instead of bi that’s colonialism.
Well it’s likely that such a fuckwad, does have his issues with Bi people as well.
I’m not surprised about this at all. There are gay republicans after all.
The worst kinds of people honestly
Had to explain that to my gay son that there was gay Trump supporters and he was stunned.
These cowards need to finish the fucking sentence. "don’t agree"with what exactly? Their right to exist?
I will never understand why any gay person would ever be transphobic.
Like…??? You do understand that people have used many of the exact same arguments against trans rights as they’ve done to suppress gay rights too… right?
Transphobic gay men are sadly common. I think some of them think that getting rid of us will make it easier for them to be accepted.
There’s a lot of gross and uncomfortable discourse about the way cis gay men treat trans gay men as well. My boyfriend and I were talking about some nasty shit that went down on Survivor…
Same way so many gay people are racist too or that you have so many classist or ableist gays. People just often don’t care about what doesn’t affect them. Hypocrisy is common as hell in humanity. We’re all guilty of it to some extent, usually though it’s very minor and in the background. But whether it’s big or small people often ignore their own hypocrisies. This shit is just blatant in the gay community. I think they do have the self-awareness of realizing the same arguments are used against them. They just don’t care.
Oh no, for some of them it’s totally different. Also there is a lot of homophobia inside the homosexual circles. Couldn’t believe it myself, but sometimes if you don’t look or act like the cliche or like common homosexual stuff like music or movies, you’re an imposter and not really gay. Saw it happen myself at a lesbian party. Two girls just looking female were bullied cause it’s “not lesbian” for a couple to be both female looking, that’s just two best friends being confused. “It’s just a phase” is a thing I heard quite a lot that evening. Never knew you signed up for a membership with rules and stuff when you’re “entering” the LG area. Just thought if you only like women as a woman you’re lesbian and same for men only liking men, but it seems that’s not the case.
Yeah… ugh. I know there’s a lot of biphobia (and, as OP mentioned, racism/ableism/classism) in the community, too, which is equally fucking absurd. I guess being queer doesn’t necessarily mean you’re any less of an ignorant asshole.
The same reason why women can be misogynistic. They think they’re one of the “good ones” and #notlikeothergays
Like they’ve forgotten that leopards ate their face too
Bisexual bias from an ex boyfriend of mine. Believed I would leave him for a girl constantly.
Same idea.
Guy was tranphobic too because it finally gave him a chance to be a bully instead of the bullied.
Fucking sociopaths
I hope you left him for a girl. Not because that makes him right but because fuck him.
Tbf I also sometimes disagree with trans people. For example my cute friend told me that red is not my color and she is so wrong about that? Like??
It’s amazing how people in general can have no empathy for who are discriminated against even if they themselves were discriminated against.
something something first brick at stonewall
[…] I’m just gonna have to stay at home with my boyfriend.
[…] get fucked.
✅
I’m pretty sure he implied that “getting fucked” was his backup plan. Also, that guy can go eat shit.
The smug “stay home with MY BOYFRIEND WHO IS A BOY AND I AM A BOY” after already saying he’s gay was a real cherry on top
Acceptance for me but not for the?
As a bi person who does support trans people, I dislike pride parades b/c they make us all look bad. Now what?
As a straight guy, I like going with my gf because the atmosphere and party is great. Also, just to show support
Don’t go to them. Seems simple.
Edit: Let me make this make sense for the people who are so eager to downvote one of their own. Let’s say you attend an endangered whale conservation group, but data shows the group’s actions (due to a few careless individuals) have actually led to more whale deaths than it has prevented. Then your response to someone critiquing you is “then don’t join the group”? You see how that is unproductive, if not morally reprehensible?
This condescending attitude is the same type of exclusionary BS that got us into needing pride parades in the first place, you know.
“Don’t think like me? You’re not welcome here. We cannot accommodate a diversity of perspectives. It’s our way or the highway.”
And liberals wonder why right wingers accuse them of being fascists.
I don’t like parades…
Well, then don’t go to them.
Fascist!
Ummm…
In seriousness, I don’t think that the person you were replying to was saying “You’re excluded.” They were trying to say “Okay, you don’t like them and think they shouldn’t happen. In that case, don’t go to them and don’t support them.” You’re not obligated to like the same things that the rest of the LGBT community likes. That seems pretty reasonable and the opposite of fascism.
In fact, I’d say you are perfectly within your rights to vocally express your distaste for Pride parades. It’s reasonable to find them distasteful while still supporting the LGBT community. You could also voice what you dislike about them and what you’d like to see change so that they better support what you’d like them to achieve for the community. I don’t think that you’d be within your rights to actually stop the parades from happening, just like I don’t think others would be within their rights to force you to attend.
Edit: Clearly none of you have ever heard of Horseshoe theory. Try reading a little before spouting harmful opinions on the Internet.
Did I say it was fascist to say “Don’t go”? No I said implying that it’s fine to exclude everyone who thinks differently, is an example of why right wingers accuse left leaning folks (who tend not to be fascists), of being fascists.
The point being that disengaging from potentially productive dialog with potential allies for arbitrary reasons, while not fascism, tends to lead to the perception of strict, unwavering, inerrant ideology, which looks very similar on the surface.
If there are 5 gays, 1 bi, and 1 trans person on an island of straight people, I believe they should all try to see past each other’s differences in order to unite for their common advancement, rather than saying “oh you don’t like how we do it? then don’t go”
Not everyone in any community is going to agree on the correct methods of achieving common goals. You’re free to try to change how the community’s approach. You’re free to try to build your own approach. You’re also free to decide whether you want to participate or not.
I don’t see how any of that excludes anyone, disengages from productive dialogue, or leads to right-wingers thinking that left-wingers are fascists.
You are talking about disengaging from dialogue, but I don’t see you actually engaging in it yourself. You stated “I dislike Pride parades”, then said it is exclusionary to suggest that you maybe could just choose not to attend. What I didn’t see you say until well after my original comment is what you would like to see changed about the parades or engaging with others about how that might be achieved.
What? You said you don’t like pride parades and the response was “don’t go then”. Not everything is for everyone.
Do you want everyone who enjoys pride parades to change them to specifically cater to you?
Lol no. I think that agreeing on higher standards for what kind of clothing and actions are not acceptable in public parades, would go a long way toward actually helping the LGBT+ community gain acceptance rather than hurting our image.
We will never “gain acceptance” by dressing and acting the way conservatives want us to.
Remember, these people are absolutely willing to define “being trans near children” as a sex crime. Our existence, to them, is a sick deviant perverted sex act. Two men holding hands in public is “grooming children”.
When you draw these lines between the “acceptable queers” and everyone else, all you’re doing is putting yourself inside of a shrinking circle. That circle will eventually shrink to the point where even you, the acceptable queer, no longer fit inside it, because our entire existence is fundamentally unacceptable to them. And when that happens, there will be no one else left to stand in solidarity with you.
I never drew that line, you did for your strawman argument. Typical lib response tbh. I never said there are “acceptable queers” and “not acceptable queers”. I said we need to have standards for what is considered acceptable in the context of public parades.
Conservatives are willing to define “being trans near children” as a sex crime, mostly b/c of the lies and misconceptions they get told/reinforced by conservative politicians and pastors about LGBT+, would you agree?
And what do you think those politicians and pastors use as “evidence” that we are all sexual deviants? If you think images and photos of sexual behavior at Pride parades is not one of them, you’re mistaken. It’s a public display, and it’s easy for them to say “why aren’t these people classified as sex offenders for doing such heinous acts in public?”
I stated a simple fact: pride parades currently hurt our image. People in this thread can’t seem to accept that.
You’re talking about people who claim to genuinely believe that schools are putting out litterboxes for children who identify as cats. Conservatives don’t need evidence, and never have. Genuinely, when have you ever seen a conservative make an evidence based argument against allowing our existence?
Evidence doesn’t factor into their worldview. If it did, they wouldn’t be conservatives. They will appeal to it when convenient, and ignore it or invent it the rest of the time. We can be as refined and polite as we like, or as depraved and deviant as we like, and it will not matter one iota to how they view us. They will still work diligently towards our extermination either way, and they will make up as many lies about us as they have to along the way.
You can try your best to be “one of the good ones”, but all that means is you get to be last one in the gas hut, after there are no more bodies left for you to shovel into the incinerator.
And, yet, a lot of us don’t give a shit if parades hurt our image with the cishets. Pride is for us. We could all show up wearing Mennonite clothing…overalls for mascs and androgynes and ankle length denim skirts for femmes…no flags, no banners, no music, no dancing, no PDA, no hand holding, nothing…just a bunch of queers in modest clothing going for a walk on a Saturday afternoon, and there would still be a large contingent of conservative cishets who would take offense just because we dare to exist outside.
The whole lot of them can get fucked.
Wait are you trying to exclude people who don’t dress the same as you want them to?
Nope the exact opposite lol I’m excluding myself until that minority sees that it’s not helping them gain acceptance.
Inclusivity without something being excluded usually makes for a powder keg of likely confrontation. As it was pointed out to me recently, being tolerant of the intolerant, should not be a thing, regardless of how tolerant your society (or group, or tribe, or culture, or… You get the point) is trying to be.
The fact is: pride is inclusive to the point of people being inclusive of it. There’s a lot of people at pride events: straights (allies), gay, bi, trans, queer… The whole rainbow is represented. With only one huge requirement: that you are inclusive enough to tolerate their views… If you are intolerant of any of them, then pride isn’t the place for you.
It’s the exact reason the protestors who think that the LGBTQ+ community are a bunch of sinners who will burn in hell, are turned away. The only real requirement at pride is that you tolerate other viewpoints, sexualities, sexual orientations, etc. If you’re intolerant of any of it, either keep it to yourself, or stay home. That’s as simple as it gets.
… At least, that’s the idea anyways. There’s room for debate on this point, on a case by case basis apparently; for reasons I won’t get into. Some pride organizers have seen fit to exclude groups of people based on who they are, not what they believe or tolerate. This is a whole discussion unto itself and not central to the point. It’s supposed to be an event where you can be who you are, free from judgement and persecution from others. If you are someone who wants to impose that judgement or persecution, then you’re not welcome.
I understand these concepts, I’m not even LGBTQ+, I’m an ally, a supporter, and I have no animosity towards any people for their sexual… anything. I’ve been to pride events, and supported LGBTQ+ rights and the communities right to exist in all forms. I will vote with my ballot and wallet to support LGBTQ+ rights and the community on all fronts. At every pride event I’ve been to, there’s always been a protest, predictably. There’s almost always, also been a counter protest. My favorite was at a local regional pride event in a nearby town. It wasn’t a large event, but the protestors were there. There were also counter protestors holding large, almost billboard sized black sheets to isolate them and their messages of hate. They were unwelcome, but since they were on public land expressing their opinion, a conditionally protected activity, they were allowed to be there, while by the same rights, the counter protestors were allowed to be there, blocking them and their signage containing hate, from being seen. It was glorious.
The only thing that a tolerant community/society should make an exception for is intolerance. Period.
So if pride isn’t for you because you will not tolerate any of the communities represented, then I would advise you to stay home.
You’re entitled to your opinion, and I’ll fight anyone who tries to take that away from you, but I’ll also fight to maintain inclusivity in an inclusive community against the intolerant. You should too, but far be it for me to tell you what to think.
You don’t see the glaring contradiction in what you just said?
How can the point of Pride be to “tolerate everyone with no exceptions,” while at the same time “never tolerate the intolerant”? You can’t have both!
The reason being: what criteria can you possibly use to decide who is “intolerant”?
Let me give you an example with the answers I assume you’d give… Have you ever heard the Chinese parable of “Good Luck, Bad Luck, Who Knows” before? This example is similar…
- Q: Is a gay man allowed at Pride? A: in general, yes
- Q: What if you learn they don’t like furries? A: then no, they can’t.
- Q: What if they want to be accepting of furries but they don’t know how? A: then sure, yes, let’s discuss.
- Q: What if they killed a furry once? A: then no, absolutely not!
- Q: What if they went to prison for 20 years for their crime, realized what they did was wrong, and decided to make a concerted effort every day to be more positive & inclusive, which is why they now attend Pride every year and donate to LGBT+ organizations in honor of the person they killed? A: well then yes, clearly they’re an ally. they can come!
- Q: Okay, what if they don’t like leather strap ons? A: ah, then no…
You see how this could keep going forever?
You’re either inclusive or you’re not. End of story.
I am aware of this paradox. It is well known and well documented.
The fact is, the paradox must exist.
Being tolerant of intolerance in an of itself will destroy tolerance. This was described quite well in my opinion, with this relatively terse and straightforward illustration:
Intolerance is literally the only thing that the tolerant should be intolerant of.
That’s exactly what’s being described, and exactly what has happened and exactly the point of all of this discussion. You are free to believe what you want, both of tolerance and intolerance, both of me and the community, and of society. Nobody can, and nobody should ever try to take that from you. You can think and believe what you want. You’re entitled to your opinion. You’re free to say and do what you like as an extension of your constitutionally protected rights. The thing that right does not grant you, is that anyone needs to listen or respect your opinions, just as you are not obligated to listen or respect anyone else’s thoughts or opinions.
What this also doesn’t grant you is freedom from the consequences of expressing those thoughts, whether that’s in the form of downvotes, being excluded from social gatherings like pride, or being incarcerated for threatening others. Not that I’m saying you’ve done any of that, nor that you’re guilty of any crimes at all, I’m merely pointing out the facts. I have no need to judge you, nor do I have any need to know or change your opinion of me.
It’s a wonderful thing, isn’t it? Freedom? It’s a paradox unto itself as well. We live in a world full of paradoxes; not to mention logical fallacies. There’s a lot to be said on this topic, and it’s incredibly deep, and there’s no easy answer no matter where you start and no matter how long you examine the issues. I’ve made my decisions, and you must make yours.
All I want to say at this point, is I wish you all the best. Have a wonderful day.
Yep. Just send your kids instead
It’s called “pride”. If you’re not proud of it then I guess just don’t show up.
I am proud, and I’d like to join a movement that actually accomplishes meaningful change for the acceptance of LGBT+ people, which I believe pride parades currently do not.
I’ll join the pride parade the day the goal becomes to convince others that we’re just like them, with jobs, families and bills to pay. Not sex-crazed maniacs, which is the stereotype perpetuated by a small minority amplified on right wing media.
I know, it was a month ago, but…
There are extroverts and introverts. Some people are almost totally naked or dressed very special, dancing around, trying to get the attention…
And there is the huge majority that goes there just to support the community, maybe with a flag, maybe without…
Guess, who is in the newspapers the next day? The quiet, shy guy from nextdoor or the extrovert I described above?
I am from Germany and here, the mix between those 2 types of people is good IMO…
Then don’t go?
noted
I have the same opinion. Pride parades often hurt the public image of the LGBT community. At least ban the leather fetish shit.
Someone else once said that they love humans, just ban all jews.
Leather is only a fetish because some people decided that it is. There is nothing inherently wrong with leather.
Ban leather fetish? You are the definition of ignorance. That is what is hurting the public image. Do you also go to a rave and tell them to dress differently? All that neon clothing is hurting your eyes? Or to any demo with people dressing as unicorns?
You underestimate the public. Who cares about leather? We care about people being ignorant dicks, about people who are obnoxious and about people who are trying to harm others. Not leather.
There is no difference between a business suit, a nipple piercing, a mini-skirt or a gag-ball. The person wearing those are what counts.
People trying to ban others, that’s just sad. As long as decency laws are obeyed, who are you to judge? Fetish only exists because of ignorance. Otherwise, they would be hobbies.
Lmao can you even hear yourself speak?
Try walking up to a conservative asking for their acceptance while wearing a nipple piercing, a leather strap-on and a gag ball, and see how they respond…
Of course “hear myself speak”. Do you? Thinking in black and white, downgrading people for having values that they grew up with, coining them conservatives, without even knowing what that term means.
When I was a kid, a banker wasn’t even allowed to turn up their sleeves in summer. Tattoos, piercings and colored hair was an instant dismissal. The same conservatives are in power still, and all that has changed. I’ve seen bankers with face-tatoos, braided hair in multiple colors and piercings, being openly gay. Acceptance is already here.
But pride parades are not about acceptance. They are some sort of “in your face, we are here, deal with it” gig. Like street gangs wearing colors. Not hiding. Those things only work when nobody suffers because of them.
That’s how acceptance works. You don’t walk up and ask for it. Acceptance happens by saturation and demonstrating that things are fine.
The problem is, street gangs cause crime and lately, pride people are just obnoxious. It’s not the leather, it’s the people wearing it, and how they behave. Demanding acceptance, even trying to force it. Calling others names and blaming them for all their troubles.
You don’t ask for it. You don’t force it. You INTEGRATE. Bit by bit. 40 years ago gay people were in hiding, pretending to be straight. Not getting jobs. Risking being beat up or being lynched.
Now, you have Trans school plays and teachers that are openly gay. The last two generations are imprinted by the fast pace of the internet. That is a new thing, people do not change that fast. But is that respected at all? No.
Internet and mobile phones weren’t a thing until I was twenty-five. Things changed over decades, not years back then. What you call conservatives are simply people not catching up that fast. You’ve never seen a real conservative. And by the way you are talking, you must be believing that the world has always been like it is now. But it changed in the last 25 years like it didn’t do since the industrial revolution 250 years ago. You seem to have no idea how far acceptance has come and how ridiculous the term conservative is. Show me a single thing from 25 years ago that’s still the same.
I did walk up to plenty of so-called conservatives, and I always got their attention, and often their approval. Not always. It is about the way one does it. Being condescending, demanding, negative and juvenile won’t help. Playing a role or fighting other people’s fights also doesn’t help. Fight for yourself and help others do the same. Individual by individual, that is how things work.
You seem to be under the impression I think pride parades are a bad thing in general b/c I said I dislike how they are now.
Did the strategy you mentioned work well for its historical moment? FUCKING YES. Absolutely. You’re right that we made tons of progress that was previously unprecedented.
But guess what? We’re in a completely different historical moment today… and now we are regressing.
I argue that Conservatives today are more polarized and therefore more dangerous than the ones you knew 25 years ago.
And do you know how I know we’re regressing? This year, the ACLU reports 479 anti-LGBT bills currently being considered to be passed as laws in the U.S. in 2024.
That’s why I’m making such a big deal… because you old sweeties who did a lot of hard work for all of us young queers are going to have to adapt to the new situation! Because the strategy that worked for the previous 25 years is NO 👏 LONGER 👏 SERVING 👏 US… And we must grow out of it, or risk facing the worst retaliation ever known to LGBT+ in the history of the US.
I’m telling you all your hard work is about to be undone, and you can’t stop judging, condescending, and blindly telling me I’m wrong about what’s clearly staring us all in the face…
So respectfully… grow up a little, please! We have work to do…
idk why you’re getting downvoted tbh https://www.theonion.com/gay-pride-parade-sets-mainstream-acceptance-of-gays-bac-1819566014
Oh man, that’s not the gotcha you think it is, The Onion is a satire site, they’re actually parodying opinions like yours, did you even read this so called proof? You certainly didn’t check the authenticity of the website in question.
Not even that far down was an obvious give away: “The parade, organized by the Los Angeles Gay And Lesbian And Bisexual And Transvestite And Transgender Alliance (LAGALABATATA)”
Lmao you think I don’t know the Onion is satire? c’mon… you think I was born yesterday?
Satire is just as effective, if not more effective, at conveying points as anything else. Hence why comedians alive today are the only living philosophers.
When did I classify this as “proof”? I’m waiting…
You might be born yesterday if you think satire directly saying your own talking points is effective at proving those points. I feel like you just googled “pride sets back gay movement” and either went with the first link, or after finding out that there is seemingly no evidence or any form of actual research to back up your claim, you went with a satire website.
If someone replies to someone saying “idk why people are disagreeing with you” and then provides a link to a website, that strongly suggests to me that they’re giving proof as to why the people who are disagreeing are wrong.
Onion article or not it’s a 2001 post, which says a lot in it’s own right.
You’re right, we should all stop watching George Carlin b/c he’s been dead since 2008. Nothing he says could be relevant anymore, right?
How was the gay rights movement back then? If memory serves correctly, not great!!
And how is the LGBT+ movement doing today?
Hmm, let’s see… the ACLU reports 479 anti-LGBT bills currently being considered to be passed as laws in the U.S. in 2024.
Maybe, just maybe, it’s time to wake the fuck up and realize the current strategy is NOT 👏 FUCKING 👏 WORKING 👏
Wake up and smell the flowers, because they’re still growing on the fresh graves of my murdered trans friends.
