• ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    2 days ago

    You are not describing other purposes, you are describing means by which NATO pursues it’s one purpose. Also, what is your understanding of the word “imperialism”?

    • BrikoX@lemmy.zipOPM
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      2 days ago

      Protection from Russia’s imperialism and stated goal of reunification of former USSR territories.

      Should be self-explanatory.

          • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            1 day ago

            Right, Miriam webster, that’s what I thought. So using that definition opens up gaping holes in your ideology.

            the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions

            If Palestine manages to push out the zionists and take back some of their land, will that be imperialism? Because according to this it will.

            or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas

            So then every economic bloc is imperialist, every capitalist organization is imperialist (always gotta capture a bigger market share!), every political party is imperialist, and any sufficiently influential cultural product is imperialism (what is pop culture if not a form of indirect political control?).

            Your definition, and mirriam webster’s boils down to “imperialism is when a government exerts control over something”. It has the same problem as all liberal concepts: it’s flat and unmoving, a child’s diorama view of the world where all things are eternal and contextless, without beginning or end. Our violence, the violence of that capitalist bloc, is just a fact of nature, while violence against us is an unforgivable aberration. To see this play out in microcosm, look at how the media is treating Luigi Mangione. Our profitable mass murder of thousands is Just How Things Are, while the revenge killing of one of the figureheads of this industry is unthinkable. America’s constant aggression, genocidal crimes and nuclear brinksmanship are just the order of things, while any moves by Russia/Iran/China/Venezuela/Cuba/North Korea/whoever to protect themselves from us is warmongering, and they must be punished like children.

            Simply put, if we accept the definition you’ve given, then we have to answer the questions it raises, questions like “why should I, a citizen of the country that perpetrates the very worst of these crimes as a matter of daily business, believe anything it says about it’s enemies? Why are you choosing to apply your definition only to those countries that the US has made it expedient to hate? If you genuinely hold anti-imperialist convictions, what makes you think supporting your imperialists at home instead of fighting them is an effective way to act on that? What are you actually accomplishing with your “Neither Washington nor Moscow, but actually Washington” faux-anti authority that every communist has witness four trillion times before?”

            • BrikoX@lemmy.zipOPM
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              1 day ago

              You are talking to me like I’m someone who worships US and their imperialism and capitalism, I’m not. So all your targeted comments just falls flat to me.

              If Palestine manages to push out the zionists and take back some of their land, will that be imperialism? Because according to this it will.

              Freeing yourself from apartheid state is by definition anti-imperialist…

              You are clearly trying to “boil down” the definition to fit your own narrative. It clearly states that simply having control over something is not enough to be imperialist, you need to have dominion over it. Something like bilateral economic dependence is not soft power that constitutes imperialism.

              It’s clear that you are not interested in honest discussion where we can disagree on merit instead you seem to be arguing against something that I haven’t expressed. Have a nice day.

              • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 day ago

                You are talking to me like I’m someone who worships US and their imperialism and capitalism, I’m not.

                I’m talking to you like someone who is demonstably falling back on US propaganda lines at every turn. I dont care if you hold reverence in your heart for the US empire, i care that you are going out of your way to try and justify it. I care what you do, not what you say you think.

                Freeing yourself from apartheid state is by definition anti-imperialist…

                By who’s definition? Certainly not mirriam-webster’s. Do you have another one I haven’t seen yet?

                You are clearly trying to “boil down” the definition to fit your own narrative.

                I am considering your stated views one step further than you and pointing out the contradictions that arise

                It clearly states that simply having control over something is not enough to be imperialist, you need to have dominion over it.

                Now we’re splitting hairs. Where does control become dominion? What’s the difference?

                It’s clear that you are not interested in honest discussion where we can disagree on merit

                I’m bringing analysis where you’ve brought shifting definitions and unexamined quasi-religious truisms about the absolute necessity of an instrument of US imperialism. Where’s your merit?

                Have a nice day.

                Merry Christmas/happy holidays