- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
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It’s almost as if, hear me out here, the Norwegians are right…
Considering how damn low their recidivism rates are, that’s a hell yes
In the US, the purpose of incarceration is cheap slave labor, which is why oligarchs like it this way. Can’t have that if inmates have rights and are allowed to have non-slave jobs.
Prison workers in the US are generally exempt from workers’ rights and occupational safety protections, including when seriously injured or killed.[43][39] Often times, inmates that are often overworked through penal labor do not receive any proper education or opportunities of “rehabilitation” to maximize profits off the cheap labor produced.[44] Many incarcerated workers also struggle to purchase basic necessities as prices of goods continue to soar, meanwhile prison wages continue to stay the same.
That’s only true in some parts of the US, in many (most?) parts, you cannot force an inmate to work or tie that decision to adjustments to time served. Unfortunately, the eighth amendment isn’t enough to prevent this problem in far too many jurisdictions.
That may be true in theory, and on paper. I know for a fact that in PA, KY, FL, and DC that if you get voluntold to work while in jail, and refuse, then they will put you in solitary confinement until you “adjust your attitude.”
Bear in mind that most people in jail are still considered “innocent” because they haven’t been to court yet.
Unlike incarcerated residents with jobs in the kitchen or woodshop who earn just a few hundred dollars a month, remote workers make fair-market wages, allowing them to pay victim restitution fees and legal costs, provide child support, and contribute to Social Security and other retirement funds.
Interesting if that’s really true, given how prison labor being slavery is pretty much how it works otherwise.
I’d love to know how fair-market the wages are, becuase I somehow suspect that:
- They’re way lower than someone not in prison would get paid and
- The benefits don’t exist (no PTO, no insurance, no 401k, etc.) and
- The coercive incentives of being able to report your employee to their guards would drive all sorts of abuses
This reads to me as a feel-good whitewashing piece so fragile white liberals can point to it and go ‘See? Prison labor isn’t that bad!’, but perhaps I’m wrong.
This reads to me as a feel-good whitewashing piece so fragile white liberals can point to it and go ‘See? Prison labor isn’t that bad!’
That would be more of a white conservative thing to say. And that’s only if they’re not complaining that the prisoners are avoiding hard labor.
You might want to read the whole article. It provides a lot of supporting evidence including names of inmates and how much money they’re making per hour. No, they’re not getting all of it. 10% of their pay is taken for “housing” them at the jail,which is BS, but whatever, that’s small potatoes compared to having nothing at all.
From the end of the article:
Scott never thought much of herself, she said, and after being sentenced to 11 years in prison, she felt she would forever be labeled a “criminal.” But then she enrolled in college, got involved in MIT’s Educational Justice Institute, and in the spring of last year, landed a fellowship making $25 an hour as a project manager for the Alliance for Higher Education in Prison, where she helped develop a guide to remote work.
Being part of professional networks that valued her contributions has helped her redefine her place in the world, Scott said, and “see a better version of myself.”
In all, Scott has managed to save nearly $30,000. She applied for supervised community confinement and was able to rent an apartment after her father persuaded the landlord to drop the “no felonies” clause by showing him her résumé and bank statements.
Scott could be released soon. She has a place to live and another possible job on the horizon.
So this particular inmate, who is still incarcerated, is making $25 an hour and has been able to save $30,000 and potentially has an apartment lined up. There’s other examples and evidence in the article, but I suggest you read the whole thing.
$25/hr for a project manager seems low, but I don’t know what starting salaries in that field look like. I’m guessing there’s a pretty hefty “prison discount” here, but that’s still awesome. $30k and job experience is a fresh start.
Well, you’ve got great points.
And, here in the US, they’re points that require extra scrutiny of any such situation.
That being said, Norway has done this kind of thing with incredible success, and not just remote work either. So the idea itself is most definitely one that merits a real attempt here too
fragile white liberals can point to it and go ‘See? Prison labor isn’t that bad!’
I just don’t see any liberal type (I’m assuming you mean progressives – just basically the opposite of trumpets) saying American prison labour is good. But they may say that if decent and meaningful labour at union-like wages has been shown to be beneficial for decreasing recidivism, then let’s trust the science and get some oversight and assessment going to confirm or refute it.
Most liberals (progressives and classical liberals alike) agree our prison system is awful and probably creates more criminals than it “fixes.” And IMO, those that think it’s fine aren’t actually liberals (in the dictionary definition sense of liberalism).
Maybe somebody should make the argument that random businesses benefiting from prison labor is not only unethical for the prisoner, but also for the people that they owe restitution to.
Unlike incarcerated residents with jobs in the kitchen or woodshop who earn just a few hundred dollars a month, remote workers make fair-market wages, allowing them to pay victim restitution fees and legal costs, provide child support, and contribute to Social Security and other retirement funds. Like inmates in work-release programs who have jobs out in the community, 10 percent of remote workers’ wages go to the state to offset the cost of room and board. All Maine DOC residents get re-entry support for housing and job searches before they’re released, and remote workers leave with even more: up-to-date résumés, a nest egg — and the hope that they’re less likely to need food or housing assistance, or resort to crime to get by.
I went into this article skeptical. Allowing them to be paid fairly shouldn’t be a big deal but it absolutely is. Getting inmates a nest-egg to go back to the world with is huge, because most inmates walk out with almost nothing, which often leads to chronic homelessness and ending up back in jail. This is huge. I’m glad to see it at least somewhere.
Having to pay only 10% of your income for room and board, sounds so good, people would kill for it.
because most inmates walk out with almost nothing, which often leads to chronic homelessness and ending up back in jail.
There is a reason the “former” slaves states like Alabama ensure that prisoners are destitute when they are released.
Allowing them to be paid fairly shouldn’t be a big deal but it absolutely is.
Not many people realize it but slavery is still legal in the US. Convicted inmates can be forced to work as part of their punishment.
Don’t even have to be convicted. Jails force inmates to work for the jail. If you refuse they throw you into solitary confinement, till you “adjust your attitude.” The vast majority of people in jail couldn’t make bail, and are waiting for trial, therefore are innocent of any crime they have been charged with.
Well, illegal slavery is always an option. The opportunities for legal slavery are minimal, though.
I want every prison in my country emptied today, police abolished and for this humanitarian crisis to never happen again, no matter the cost.
Moral hazard, getting money/profit from prison labor creates a incentive to have more laborers contributing their tithe. Or find creative ways to keep high value laborers for longer.
We never made slavery illegal in the U.S. That’s why we make various things a crime, send people to prison, and then bam, free labor for pennies on the dollar, and sometimes nothing. And the BEST PART, they aren’t subject to labor laws, so they can treat them subhuman, and create working conditions that would make you want to puke. Yay capitalism, where everyone is just a number.
free labor for pennies on the dollar, and sometimes nothing
🤔
Maybe i should have called it forced labor. They don’t exactly have a choice.
I understand, just found the word choice to make that point amusing
