This article is just the same sentence over and over again. Must be those lazy millenials copy-pasting in their computers again.
Are we really trying to make this of all things a generational thing? Why?
It depends on the job, if you have to say open a store then 10 min late is a problem. You have to say make a thing, then 10 mins is not an issue as long as the thing is done.
I have seen people with no respect for other peoples time (so they where late often) and they where not of a single generation but more commonly of a class (the people with means tend to think they can be late).
I used to have to open a fishing pier at 5:30am. A line of angry fisher people at the gate will tighten you up real quick. I let everyone in for free if I was 10 minutes late, but I was more so motivated not to be late.
These were the people who were fishing as a source of food and/or bait for later fishing for food. I got to know them and wasn’t late often because that would be shitty. They got to know me and knew I was working 3 jobs and going to college. So, they were sympathetic when it did happen.
Life, man, turns out it ain’t all simplistic generational platitudes.
I wish more people saw the world this way.
Every time someone divides an attitudes by generations.
Every time someone divides driving capabilities by make of car.
Every time someone divides work ethic by race.
Every time someone divides action by class.
There are good people and bad people and everything in between and they are not tied to specific demographics.
You can witness a trend, but it does not define anything.
People are just people.
Tesla drivers are shit tho
even before I wanted to translate that over to “Elon’s dickriders”
For real though, it’s super annoying when people say bs like what you did about things you have a choice over. Dividing by race, bad. Dividing because you decided to get a raised short bed pickup truck with HIDs…well those people chose to be assholes. Same with Matt gaetz supporters of which there are thousands. They chose to support a rapist in multiple elections despite the evidence. I’m cool dividing people up by choices.
In this case parent poster chose to overcommit and the people at his work chose to forgive that. I got no issue with that.
I just can’t agree with that. Your choice of car doesn’t make you a dick head. Maybe a lot of dick head buy teslas, but so do none dickheads. I’ve heard the same thing said about audi drivers, and bmw drivers, and mercedes drivers and range rover drivers. There is no neat little box you can put all dick heads in when it comes to what car they drive. There is no venn diagram that would cover this.
So the car you drive doesn’t make you a dick head. Being a dick head makes you a dick head.
If you’ll note the for real statement, the example I provided was much more specific. If you can find me a single soul on this earth with a raised short-bed w/ hid (or equivalent LED since HIDs are old now) who isn’t an asshole I’ll take it back. But I doubt you’ll be able to.
As for the teslas in particular, I’d say it’s more like 60% than 100% who just don’t know how to drive. And our brains are probability engines.
A guy i work with in IT infrastructure lives on a small farm, he has a raised shortbed (assuming that just means a pickup with the back part that has no roof and three short side and tailgate, sorry the terminology is different in the UK so i had to google what it was so could be wrong) he is genuinely one of the nicest pwople i know. He is super helpful with any new staff that joins the team and is very smart. He uses this pickup on his farm, and it serves a meaningful purpose that is not better served by other means.
So there’s at least one.
Im not going to argue that there arent dickheads driving these things. But i will fight you on saying that its all of them.
That kind of blanket statement is not helpful. I hope you take what i am saying and genuinely think about it because you are coming off as very intolerant.
Sorry. I dont want to start an argument. Would much rather keep this at the discussion level, i just find it hard to convey context, tone, and intent in text form
It depends on the job,
I am surprised how much this point is lost on the other commenters
Its wild that people can think a whole ass batch of people (a generation) thinks being 10 min late to anything is not a bad thing. Like if you show up to meet someone and they are 10 min late, its not the end of the world but if it happens every time you are going to judge that person.
I don’t think jobs should be tied to timecards (I hate time keeping systems, I had to fix some) but to job requirements.
Some examples: Office work normally does not matter until it does. I once worked in a banks head office and had to at or shortly before 7:30am tell all the ABMs to change to the next business day (this would cause them to go offline briefly) and pull the reports for that day. If I was 10 min late the reports would not be there on time for 8am where they are needed for another task a co worker is expected to do before the bank opens (at 8am in some places).
Any retail store that has some respect for their employees and customers needs people to not be late, showing up 10 min late might just mean rushing to open or relieve some co-worker but that also is likely increasing the risk of accidents. I don’t think its fair that someone gets to work an extra 10 mins or wait to buy whatever for 10 mins just because some one thinks “eh, 10 mins is close enough”
Task based jobs on the other hand (say programming, maintenance, sales, repair centres, etc.) should not really matter as much. When you start is less important then if you meet a deadline when finished. I used to work a job that wanted me to “start” every day at 7:42 AM (we used time units of 1/10th an hour) but would get real pissy when I did not leave my house until 8:30 or so since the stuff I was working on was in places that did not open until 9 or 10 am. They told me I should go to an arbitrary location (a warehouse or McDonalds where the examples they gave) by 7:42am to log in “in order to show I was ready for work”. That was stupid and irrational, so I did not do it. But I would also not show up 10 min late if I could help it for any appointment (work or otherwise) since I value my time and the peoples time I am interacting with.
You seem not fun to be around tbh
Odd response, it is mildly insulting yet brings nothing to the discussion.
Oh, I was figuring you would take it right at face value. Not everyone you meet in life will find your weird obsession with time and schedules to be particularly fun or positive, and your personal obsession isn’t how everyone else is gonna live their life just because you want it. Seems simple enough. You’ve taken a very hard line stance on something that wildly large swaths of the population will disagree with you on (whether verbally or just in practice)
What personal obsession? This is a comment on an article about being late. Did you expect no one to have a time based discussion here?
Why?
It’s a Fortune article. Their whole thing is keeping the class war active and right now a great way to do that is to make the older, capital owning generation, pissed off at the young ones so that they don’t think for a second this whole “widening wealth gap” thing might be unfair and oppressive.
I think the issue is they are not “keeping the class war active” but trying to make the class war into a generational one. I have worked with, for and had worked for me people who are often late and never did I see one age group of people show up more late then another. Hell I have had issues with staff showing up over an hour early and that was only people under 25 so far (not an issue with them doing it, just an issue with feeling I am taking advantage of them).
Sorry yeah I used badly unclear language there you are absolutely correct.
I should have said “It’s a Fortune article. Their whole thing is keeping the class war at less than a simmer. They do this here by providing distracting ammo to fuel other wars and blaming [age/race/gender/migrant status] for economic troubles rather than the true oppressive force that is capital.”
Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say before I even wrote it 😅
In the 80s and 90s, Gen X were coming in late and the Greatest Generation was firing their our asses. It’s generational because every generation becomes more concerned with punctuality.
Time clocks have been around since 1888 and people have been getting fired for being late even longer.
Stop trying to make this a generational thing.
Dumb article trying to make laziness a feature (not a bug), and shit on boomers.
Being late is laziness? I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
laziness is a feature, not a bug, and it’s literally how our brains are wired.
(e: also it’s literally a study into generational differences. empirical data showing there is a difference in mindset. if you think that’s shitting on boomers then it’s you who made the value judgement in the first place. also if you read the article, if anything, it’s shitting on gen z for not getting work done on time.)
Is the work getting done? If so, what does ten minutes matter? Is it about productivity, or just about ensuring that work is sufficiently unpleasant to keep the peasants in their place?
What else is the overseer supposed to do to justify their position besides add stress and create reasons to not raise wages?
Its probably just what everyone’s used to. I work in an ED. Fuck anyone who always turns up late. What does 10 minutes matter? It matters a lot actually. This is shift work. The work is never “done”.
How does one work inside of an erectile dysfunction?
Ladies and gentlemen, please give a warm lemmy welcome to FRAYED PICKLES whistles, whoops, cheers, applause
Thanks insipid. As I like to say, use stupid acronyms get stupid misunderstandings.
Well where I’m from its just what it’s called. Most people would know what it is. I’m actually English and we call it A&E for Accident and Emergency, or Casualty. That’s what I would have called it if I still lived there because that’s what everyone there is used to. What you’re basically asking for is for me to translate for you. Well, like I said, I’m English and live in the states. You think everyone thinks to translate American english for me? Use google. Its pretty clear I’m don’t work in an erectile disfunction - unless that’s a euphemism for America.
It definitely could be a euphemism for America. Have you seen Florida?
But uh… the big flaw in your story here is that “emergency department” is immediately understandable, ED isn’t. It’s also eating disorder. Recently in the news it’s been education department since DoE is taken and acronyms are ineffective. It’s also engineering design, encyclopedia dramatica, emotional disorder and I’m sure many more that I don’t know.
What’s ED in this context?
Emergency Department. Its a Level One Trauma center, so down time is not predictable.
Why not just say emergency room rather than an acronym nobody in the general population uses? There was a whole tv show about this for like 25 years.
Well no reason other than that’s what it’s called here. Most people where I live would know what I’m talking about. I can’t be responsible for all people who don’t understand me. Im going to use the language that is commonly used where I live aren’t I? It’s not a room it’s a department.
work is sufficiently unpleasant
Can’t have these wagies too comfortable, the labour won’t be alienated enough.
I was either 10 minutes early or 20 minutes late
A bus ride taking 40 minutes to go to work sucks
But the workplace was great so I don’t have much to complain about
Work and quality of life > filling time to satisfy timecards
I am fresh off a rather interesting conversation with my boomer boss. I’m a new manager and I’m working on policy and process. I was basically shut down, told to not bother documenting, that we have a way of doing things and he would spend every day with me for weeks to get it right if he had to.
I asked again, wouldn’t it be easier and more efficient to have these processes documented and accepted rather than force muscle memory? I even offered to document the process during our training sessions but was told that were a small company and no one will look at documentation if we create it (we’re a 2000 employee manufacturing company).
Oh well, I know how to work around obstinance and he’s pretty old.
That’s crazy. Anyone who is against documentation should not have a job that requires literacy.
Think there’s a balance.
I work at a company where they have a documented process for everything. The thing is once some thing is in a document, it’s like some written in stone mandate that becomes unchangeable and inflexible. The stuff in the “oral tradition” remains flexible.
Every so often new blood comes along, sees how dysfunctional the documented processes are, and proposes to fix the processes. Now in principle, they are right, but those of us who have been through a few iterations dread the outcome. Invariably the changes they propose to replace stupid existing processes are instead just added to existing processes, because some folks recognize the improvement but no one wants the blame for a mistake caused by leaving the old process behind. So each time we end up with more redundant stupid work.
So while in principle, documented processes are right, sometimes the political reality is stupid.
The. Your company is doing lean six sigma wrong…if at all. Processes are supposed to improve and change all the time.
What’s a sigma?
Both of you are right.
You meed to document processes. The minute you put them to paper they will be out of date. No one will read them. It has always been so.
But it does allow you to go, “Ah here’s where the process went wrong, step 6 in the SOP. Why don’t you use it as a guide for the next one?” It then isn’t me vs them, it’s me helping them understand the documented process collaboratively.
Yup. Documentation is a necessary, but imperfect medium.
I just started at a new company that really invests time in documenting their processes, but the are poorly made by people that don’t understand the process itself and, in some cases, the process itself is poorly planned and has to be changed over and over again, to the point where the DTP looks nothing like what’s actually done…
I was instructed to review the documentation you twin myself, but advised the process did not actually describe the process itself…
That’s precisely what I’m after, and what I’m proposing. I don’t care about the outputs, I care about the process that gets them to us.
Also why they need to be living documents, but if we have to reinvent the wheel every time we need a new one, it slows things down. I should mention, I’m on the IT side.
There are Process people and there are Get It Done people. Both are necessary. In their extremes, both are bad. When they work together they can do great things.
Depending on industry certs, documenting things will make life easier.
Well then the boomer bitches can pay enough for us to live 10-15 mins from work, not a 2 hr drive in rush hour. This close eyed brutal existence they are forcing on us is about to implode on them. The barbarians kicked over the oil, they dropped their torches into it, and they are currently sharpening sticks to roast the ruling class with. This is not a damn game. You stole our lives from us, now we want yours. (The actual life, not your quality of living)
It depends on the job. For most office jobs, I don’t think it matters that much if you show up a bit late to go to the bank or if you’re stuck in traffic, especially now that holding online meetings are easy.
But for a job where being late means holding up the work of hundreds of people, say, being an actor on set, then showing up ahead of time is very important.
When I got my first office job (after working retail and the like), I was uncomfortable when people would have a conversation and not be productive. It was burned into me that one should work at all times while “on the clock.” I learned the phrase, “time to lean is time to clean,” when working at a restaurant.
We really walk on people who work in service jobs. It’s not right.
Why did you have to bring Vin Diesel into this?
I mean, just because you’re on TV and get paid a lot of money doesn’t mean the rules don’t apply to you.
What is actually needed is the flexibility to do it.
It really doesn’t matter for the task if I’m physically present between 8:15-16:15 instead of 8:00-16:00.
If I have to be at my desk at 8 sharp, I will hit the rush hour both ways, having to leave my home at least 20 minutes earlier and waste that time in congestion for no good reason. I’ll be home about the same time, because the only difference is how long I get to stare at the steering wheel.
I don’t care if the one option that saves me 1-2 hours of unpaid time every week is considered “tardy” by boomers. In my gen-x point of view, a lot of their lifestyle is wasteful for no other reason than selfmade “traditions”.
Used to be a phone salesman. Got there at least 15 minutes late every day. It got so bad that one time I got there 15 minutes early and when my boss saw me get there he shouted “Steve?! What time is it?!”. Nobody cared because I outsold everyone else by so much that I was making double what they were, until the boss of my boss’ boss decided to start micromanaging the branch and basically told me I would be fired unless I started showing up on time. Boomers have weird priorities.
Their weird priorities is because they were raised with the dumbass idea that showing up early somehow increased production and is rewarding. Hell I showed up 15 minutes early everyday and the boomer was still pissed because he didn’t want to pay the overtime. Can’t even make up their minds!
yeah we have this whole thing about being logged on by 8.30 to start stand up at 8.37, so everyone logs on between 8 and 8.30 and then has breakfast or doomscrolls until the stand up starts. Which nobody listens to, because it’s poorly run, and then immediately after goes an makes another cup of coffee, bathroom run, and probably starts actual work around 9.30.
Meh. It’s all about power. Same reason tucking in your shirt and being clean shaven is a big thing for some boomer execs, it’s just some bullshit they can’t use to force people to conform
This seems more likely. The same guy also wanted me to buy a suit because jeans and military boots give clients a bad image of the company. We did all of our business through the phone.
He probably wanted you to buy a suit, but wouldn’t give you a stipend for it if you asked
Maybe if the fucking workplace wasn’t so fucking far from home, or if public transportation was decent, people would be much less likely to arrive late at work.
The other thing is, as soon as you realize that your job could be remote, which is true for a lot of office stuff, being “on time” matters fuck all.
Force employers to pay hourly wages for at home prep and commuting and they will suddenly start caring about hiring people in their area
I’ve always thought not compensating for commutes was ridiculous. Ive demanded 15k raises for jobs because they wanted me to drive.
All of the neighborhoods within walking or cycling distance of my workplace are literal crack dens where I’d be mugged and/or robbed within a week.
The boomers are dying out. It’s a self solving problem.
Millennials are five years away from Get Off My Lawn years old tho.
I’m an elder millennial, a lot fi my friends are sharing very boomer-esque “back when I was a kid, things were better because of XYZ.” Millennials are not the panacea you want them to be. A lot of them are just as dumb as boomers and these problems are systemic, not generational.
I hope when I get to boomer age, I complain about how it used to snow or Roe like I am now. Unless those problems are fixed ofc
Survivorship bias applies to memory as much as anything else.
Not fast enough
This really depends on what you’re doing.
If you’re in IT nobody should care. If you’re doing an artillery barrage then being late could mean a lot of your people die.
Highly dependent on what you do for work. But if Bob the Bookstore Manager wants me to treat a cashier job with the same respect as a military mission then he better be willing to issue me a rifle and a 400,000 dollar life insurance policy
Downvote if you will but it is just rude to show up late regardless of your performance or the situation. Period.
Nah. Don’t be so uptight. The 4 emails that I received during off hours will still be there if the insane amount of construction they keep starting but not finishing in my city causes me to be 10 mins late that morning.
Really depends on the job.
If you complete all assigned tasks on time and don’t inhibit anyone else’s schedule, then who gives a shit?
If it’s shift work and someone is waiting for you to arrive so they can start their work, or worse, end their shift and go home, then yeah it’s a huge dick move.
I mean yes in practise and if you put it that way of course.
I’m just saying that as a general rule you should be on time.
I’m with the zoomers on this one, honestly. If the workload is independent then there is no reason to demand what time the person gets started on that work load if it’s going to take the same amount of time. Yes, there are jobs where its time sensitive or assisting customers so obviously you need to be in place by a certain time, but that is not universal.
And it cuts both ways, if you consider it rude for a person to not show up by a mandated, arbitrary time, it’s equally rude to mandate a meeting or other function a person has to show up to that has nothing do with their job. I’ve been in the workforce nearly 20 years now, and frankly the number of meetings, events or functions I’ve been expected to go to that served no purpose other than to waste my damn time is way too high. The meeting could have been an email, the training might as well have been a check box, and if the party/event was so damn important why wasn’t I paid to attend?
TL;DR unless a person being late directly affects another person, then who cares? I’ll start caring about what a corporation thinks is rude when said corporations start giving a damn about my time and compensating properly for wasting it.
And it cuts both ways, if you consider it rude for a person to not show up by a mandated, arbitrary time, it’s equally rude to mandate a meeting or other function a person has to show up to that has nothing do with their job. I’ve been in the workforce nearly 20 years now, and frankly the number of meetings, events or functions I’ve been expected to go to that served no purpose other than to waste my damn time is way too high. The meeting could have been an email, the training might as well have been a check box, and if the party/event was so damn important why wasn’t I paid to attend?
Yes. Both of these things can be true…
It’s a job. Imagine having literally any respect for it.
I agree. We will be the first to call out employers who want you to arrive early to load up systems to be ready to take calls at start time. I see this as the same.
I want to get paid for the time I give, nothing more and nothing less.
That’s unambitious. I want to be paid for the value my work creates. Time is a finite resource. Trading it for (in all likelihood not enough) money so other people can get rich is a sucker move.
That’s not what you sign up for, ever except maybe c suite negotiations where you get bonuses based on performance. A job is not a trade of value. It is literally paying you for your time since most jobs are unskilled manual labor you can train on the job.
I want to be paid for getting the job done, not for being a body in a seat for a specific number of hours regardless of how much work there is to do.
Sometimes the job is being available, being a body in a seat.
And often it is not, but still treated that way by managers.
Nah, ten minutes don’t matter.
I’m gen x. I’m always anxious about being on time because of how I was raised (thanks Mom). My partner is older than me and she’s ok with being late. This isn’t an age thing. It’s a personality thing.
They’re trying to divide us by sowing division amongst generations. The most wealthy are the enemy. They own everything and we must join together to take it back.
My mother raised me on the saying that (with occasional exceptions, such as dinner and parties) “if you’re not ten minutes early, you’re late.”
I don’t entirely agree with it, but it did result in me taking other people’s time very seriously and me being a very punctual person. It also caused anxiety about being punctual.
It also caused anxiety about being punctual.
Exactly. If I’m running late I get pretty stressed. It’s physically uncomfortable.
taking other people’s time very seriously
This is a kind thing to do, but I also put it squarely in the “respect is earned” category.
I wouldn’t give someone hell for being 10 mins late because traffic or whatever, but if their standard is expecting me to be there half an hour early, just staring at the clock, won’t let me clock in early and just get to it, burning time I’ll never get back, anxiously awaiting to clock in on the dot and not a minute more or else…
…They clearly don’t think much of my time and therefore the relationship is going to be adversarial in nature.
