My advice is for you to wipe my butt clean with your tongue my guy.
Ah fuck. I’m in a public stall and just giggle farted.
I’m not your bidet, buddy!
Relationships are like the blockchain.
There’s no trusted, central database of all relationships that determines what is or isn’t cheating.
That trust is negotiated in each interaction.Marriages follow the traditional method of a chain of trust. There is a central database that lies with the government or the church, and everyone decides which database they want to trust.
You must have an interesting social life that every time you hook up, all past relationships immediately contact each other and vote on whether you are a cheater.
It’s part of the survey and mailing list all of their relationships receive the first time they wake up in OP’s bed
Did Elon write this?
Isn’t he on top of many of these pyramid chains?
Mom’s new boyfriend is a smart fella, but her son seems to be a fart smella.
Modern day poetry, 👌👌👌👌
Most hilarious tongue twister for kids under 10:
One smart fella, he felt smart
Two smart fellas, they felt smart
Three smart fellas, they all felt smartHow did this one not make the rounds when I was a kid? All we had was Claude Balls, Seymour Butts, and Jack Mehoff. Oh and super racist stuff about the Polish that stays dead.
My advice would be “shut the fuck up and listen”.
I’ve read that blockchain itself is a good technology. NFTs are a laughably absurd attempt to exploit that technology for profit.
Xitter op needs to shut up.
It’s one of those things where scientists discovered something interesting and novel, and then a bunch of dumb grifters came in to try and make it their new snake oil.
A very, very long time ago, back when Bitcoin was viewed as a currency instead of an “investment” platform, Bitcoin kinda fulfilled the ideal use case for the blockchain. I think now the general public is just too soured on them for that to ever be the case, unless Elon makes Bitcoin the new currency of the U.S…
Blockchain is a solution in search of a problem. A way to establish trust while not trusting any party is a cool concept, but in the real world it’s far easier to establish a source of trust.
I have a friend who works at a major bank and they use Blockchain technology to keep track of something or other internally, though I don’t remember exactly what. In this case at keast we can bet that it has found a problem wirth using it to sokve. Banks are nothing if not efficient.
I find it funny that it was touted as an alternative to the current banking system and ended up being absorved into it though
If it’s used internally, then I question whether it made sense to use blockchain. At the end of the day, it’s probably the trust in the bank that matters and not blockchain.
Banks are nothing if not efficient.
Banks are businesses made up of people. If a manager thought he could get a promotion by supporting a blockchain project at the height of blockchain mania, that’s what he would do. Whether if fails or not is of no consequence, the manager is already on another project.
I envy your trust in the efficiency of banks
It is a bad solution though, because it revolves around wasting tons of energy in solving made up problems no one actually needs the solution to. I know there’s alternative cryptocurrency that use better methods or solve actual problems but 90% of it is bitcoin.
Congratulations, now your trust relies on your subject never becoming important enough that someone bothers to run 50%+1 of the nodes in your network which means only very, very large subjects (or ones where trust wasn’t very important in the first place) ever even have a chance of that not happening. What do you say? Your technology doesn’t scale to very, very large subjects because of abysmal transaction rates?
solution in search of a problem
Idk I think centralised trust is a problem in and of itself but you can just look to history and world events that created bank runs and financial crashes like y’know - 2008, a year later the bitcoin ledger began.
it’s far easier to establish a source of trust.
Yes but it also comes with problems as mentioned above. Blockchain tech being used for scams if anything is evidence of it being a mature and functional technology for finance because under capitalism it’s all inherently a scam of some sort.
That said we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good, I’m glad the technology exists even if I don’t think it achieved what it set out to do quite as well as one would’ve hoped, if for no other reason than the fact we can all just buy any drugs online now with one day delivery instead of being stabbed on the street after calling some number like barbarians in the olden days.
The blockchain doesn’t prevent a run on the “banks.” If everyone decides to cash out at the same time out of fear of a crash then the currency crashes and there isn’t enough money to liquidate everything (until it has no value). It isn’t an improvement for that. If anything, it’s a negative. Banks can implement policies to prevent it, but you can’t really do so with crypto.
It would be useful for things like deeds and contracts. Instead of having a bank hold it and provide proof you could store it on the blockchain. There are a handful of good uses for it, but it’s generally not useful for the stuff most people think it would be.
Well, you can’t do fractional-reserve banking with bitcoin (or any other coin I know of), so in that way, a “run” on a bitcoin can only ever exhaust the supply. lending out more than you have requires trust, and that’s not available in a blockchain structure.
On the other hand, fractional reserve banking is the foundation of all modern financial systems, so it’s not really a thing we’re going to scrap.
It would be useful for things like deeds and contracts. Instead of having a bank hold it and provide proof you could store it on the blockchain. There are a handful of good uses for it, but it’s generally not useful for the stuff most people think it would be.
Well, yes but no.
There’s a lot of problems with blockchain deeds, and one of the big ones is confirming the first owner. What’s to prevent me from minting a smart-contract that says I own your house? Or that I own a house that doesn’t even exist? In the real world, we’ve solved those problems (and MANY more) with notaries and central registration systems. At the interchange of digital-ownership and real-world, physical assets, you’re always going to need a trusted party to verify that the two match. And at that point, you don’t need the blockchain at all.
Sure the currency itself isn’t resistant to a run on itself but having some wealth in the currency will cushion a run on the real IRL banks for fiat currency.
Except that it’s so incredibly volatile that from one months to the next you literally don’t know if your crypto wealth will be worth twice as much or half as much.
If what you’re trying to protect yourself from is runs on banks, you’de be better of with gold, works of art, even stocks (which are less volatile than crypto) or, even simpler, spread your money over several banks, ideally in more than one country.
Blockchain wouldn’t have mattered for 2008, at least not the crash parts. Blockchain would help with who owned which loans which was also an issue. It wouldn’t do anything for the crash parts as that was bad lending fundamentals of no verified income or unrealistic appraisal.
Blockchain scams are evidence of it’s unreadiness and naivety. Crypto has speed ran the last 200-300 years of financial fraud. Pump and dumps, ponzi schemes, front running, market manipulation, rug pulls, and more.the fact the only viable use case is crime is also pretty telling, anyone that can safely involve a government entity would rather do that.
No it would not prevent the 2008 crash however if you had some money in a cryptocurrency you would be cushioned from some effects of the fallout. Not a replacement, just an addition. Having an alternative is the draw.
Blockchain scams are evidence of it’s unreadiness and naivety.
Hard disagree, it’s evidence of its effectiveness and maturity. No primitive financial system would be capable of being used for:
Pump and dumps, ponzi schemes, front running, market manipulation, rug pulls, and more
Financial systems are primarily tools for fraud and zero-sum transactions, there’s a line there for what is and isn’t legal which is decided by the government, but it’s ultimately all just taking money from one place to another and someone loses.
I had my money - which at the time include the proceedings of working a few years in Finance - spread over 3 bank accounts in 3 countries back then and came through it all with no loss whatsoever.
Further, crypto is so stupidly volatile that even stocks are better at protecting your wealth because you’re actually less likely to see half its value gone in a week with stocks (incredibly unlikely, even, if you get a tracker fund on a major index).
And don’t get me started on the ultimate most conservative (literally capable of surviving the collapse of modern civilization) wealth protection thing around - gold.
The point being that unless you expect the collapse of modern civilization (in which case you might try gold or, even better, tradeable essential needs like the kind of food that doesn’t spoil easily such as dried pulses), the best way to safekeep your wealth is as usual Diversification, with a focus on things with a stable value, which crypto is definitely not.
There’s scams with fiat currency, but you don’t show that as evidence that dollars aren’t ready for mainstream. When people get scammed out of their crypto it’s not blockhain’s naivety, it’s the victim.
The difference is the government exists to step in and punish scammers, and regulates markets to prevent many scams for being possible.
That is also possible with blockchain, its partly enforced with KYC (know your customer) laws. Granted there isn’t currently a great example that I know of where auditing and reversal is possible but that doesn’t mean it’s not technically possible.
When people get scammed in traditional currency, you can revert the transaction. You cannot revert anything with blockchain, and that’s a feature, which means if you get scammed out of your bitcoin, there’s nothing you can do. That money is lost, and the scammer keeps it.
And if you get scammed out of cash by another person how will the government step in to revert it? Theft happens every day. You are talking about banking, you are not talking about money. They are not the same thing.
Also, when I try to scam someone using my bankaccount, my bank goes “Uhhh, please show us that this isn’t a scam”. My bitcoin wallet doesn’t care.
What schemes exactly? I know there are schemes using fiat currency, but that’s quite different from the currency itself being a scam.
Blockchain isn’t inherently a scam, Bitcoin, Litecoin, etherium, monero and others are valid ledgers. They serve their intended purpose technically. You are specifically pointing out that there are investment scans in new shitcoins that are pumped up and dumped, or that never even really exist. You are correct that this doesn’t exactly happen with fiat currencies but there are still nearly identical scams, like pyramid scams where people “invest” and they see their account value go up in USD or other fiat, and every month their account balance is inflated. Some people may be able to withdraw their money at first, or maybe nobody can ever withdraw anything.
Blockchain isn’t inherently a scam, pretending to launch a coin or launching a coin and abandoning it is hardly different from existing scams that are settled in USD that sell land that doesn’t exist or scammers that try to get you to invest in their business and then disappear with your money. You’re characterizing all Blockchain currencies as scams, it’s just not true. I spent my career working in IT, I look at Blockchain as a technical invention. There are ways to transact securely on Blockchain.
Interesting. Good to know. Thanks!
Blockchain is effectively a distributed database. Almost always a good centralized database functions better.
Nah. the commenter above is just wrong. It’s just that anyone who isn’t selling bullshit uses their real name- Merkel trees - which are fundamental to modern software development (git, zfs, nix, nosql).
We define “blockchain” and “blockchain network”, and then discuss two very different, well known classes of blockchain networks: cryptocurrencies and Git repositories.
That’s a similar but different concept. Blockchain adds a way to determine consensus of the correct tree. While git is distributed, it’s generally not trustless, there’s generally a trusted version of the repository.
what? Git is very much distributed and while you can have a main branch, you can set as many up streams as you want and merge things sideways.
It’s trust less in the sense that commits can’t be easily forged and are signed with cryptographic keys and identities-- as in, I don’t have to trust that the source code is genuine since I can verify the commit history myself.
Consensus is just a pull request.
That wiki article literally lists Bitcoin and Ethereum as implementations of Merkel trees.
It’s trust less in the sense that commits can’t be easily forged and are signed with cryptographic keys and identities.
I’m pretty sure being able to verify that the person responsible for a push is an actual maintainer is the opposite of trustless.
How is it any different than verifying that a transaction occurred?
How is a trusted repository different from a hard fork?
Isn’t “proving someone is a maintainer” just an IRL proof of stake?
Is it easier to establish a source of trust? With blockchain trust lies in the protocol and in the node operators who make decisions about how to operate their nodes. Running a node isn’t extremely difficult. Running a financial institution is difficult.
Well, sure, now you have a currency that doesn’t rely on trust
…now what? How are you going to spend that currency if you don’t trust anyone? How will you ensure you get what you bought? How will your property get protected? Hell, how do you get others to agree that your crypto is the one they should use?
It’s trust all the way down. Removing it from one small part of the chain isn’t going to fundamentally change things
What problem does blockchain solve?
Having too much electricity and not enough CO2.
We recently developed AI for that purpose though which does the same thing but is useless in occasionally funny ways.
Apparently, it can be very secure. If “pieces” of a secure key are stored in multiple places, for example, only changing one link in the “chain” means it won’t match with the others. They ALL have to be changed at the same time, which is virtually impossible to do in secret.
Please note that I am far from an expert on the subject. I’m paraphrasing an article I read months ago.
Can’t you takeover a blockchain by owning the majority of a block chain, or by having a majority of the processing power to compute hashes?
Yes which is part of why the major chains are owned and controlled by companies, but then that makes the whole thing pointless. IMO, a company controlled blockchain may as well just be a DB cluster, it would be faster and more efficient.
Are you saying that they “solve” that by never giving up more than 49% stake?
That… seems like a bad solution
Those things sound possible, but I’m not knowledgeable enough to speculate. Sorry.
If you had 51% of the world’s computing power (to blockchains using proof of work) yes you could forge records, from what I could wrap my head around about blockchains.
You don’t need 51% of the world’s power though, just 51% of the power of people who care about how the system works. Most people using block chain cryptos don’t care at all, so the threshold is a tiny percentage of the user base.
Yeah you’re right. I was thinking specifically Bitcoin and the astronomical amount of compute power that’s behind it.
That’s proof of work. Proof of stake is you just need more than everyone else, right?
It works more like loaning money and then receiving interest, except you are loaning crypto to the network and then you get it back, plus some, after a certain period of time
This would just create a fork in the blockchain where 51% of the network doesn’t match the correct state of the blockchain that the 49% have. The 49% would effectively stop working because they could never validate the transactions that the 51% takeover has falsely created. The node operators of the 49% of the network would need to reach consensus for how to deal with the problem, but essentially they would just adopt code that ignores the 51% data, so they could continue to process blocks of transactions. Without manual intervention the 49% would be frozen. The 51% is just fake, they haven’t really changed anything because every real node operator would know it’s false data.
What if the 51% have already completed the consensus process?
Essentially, verifiability (the token exists on the blockchain), de-duplication (each token can only exist once on the blockchain), and proof of ownership (only one account number can be associated with each token on the blockchain). There’s nothing wrong with this idea in a technical sense and it could be useful for some things.
But… the transaction process is computationally expensive. For the transaction to be trustworthy, many nodes on the blockchain network must process the same transaction, which creates a whole bunch of issues around network scaling and majority control and real-world resource usage (electricity, computer hardware, network infrastructure, cooling, etc).
And beyond that, the nature of society and economics created a community around this unregulated financial market that was filled with… well, exactly the kind of people you’d expect would be most interested in an unregulated financial market - scammers, speculative investors, thieves, illegal bankers, exploitatitive gambling operators, money launderers, and criminals looking to get paid without the government noticing.
The technology can solve some interesting problems around verifying that a particular digital file is unique/original (which can be useful, because it’s extremely easy to make copies of digital information) but it creates a long list of other problems as a side effect.
Almost every single non-theoretical problem that blockchains solve is something we’ve already solved. And most of the problems you could solve with a blockchains are severely limited by data-size limitations.
It would be amazing if I could decentrally store, say, a movie or videogame on a blockchain. Then, I could sell access tokens, would the owners could resell as they wanted. That’s a GREAT way to use blockchain tech, because people would always have access, and they could use or sell the keys as they wanted. It doens’t work though, because in the real world, that movie doesn’t fit on the blockchain, it’ll just be a link the a secondary source, and the whole thing falls apart.
And that’s really the problem. Blockchains have a lot of nifty uses, but it almost always immediately falls apart around the edges, where it touches on non-blockchain tech, or, even worse, physical objects.
Intermediary free monetary transfer, lack of trust, transparency
It does only the last one and only partially.
How do you transfer money without an intermediary through blockchain?
I am pretty sure you just turn your money over to a scammer who just disappears with it. Since it is stateless and a libertarian dream, nothing can be done. So, congratulations!
You don’t need blockchain for that either. #theranos
By sending it to an address of the recipient’s wallet from your wallet? I’m not sure what you’re asking. Bitcoing transactions don’t involve intermediaries by default unless you’re using an exchange of some kind. You can even transfer between cryptocurrencies using atomic swaps.
Granted you’d have to buy crypto for fiat currency to begin with and because of unfortunate regulatotions you have to often go through a KYC process with some banking institution, but that’s a fault of glowies getting greedy for data, not the tech.
So, instead of my bank sending money to your bank, I use my bank to send money to a bitcoin broker, then I send the bitcoin, and then their broker sends money to their bank, adding two more middlemen.
Is the recipients wallet a web socket somewhere? How does the transaction end up in the actual blockchain such that others can confirm that this transaction was plausible?
I’ve heard of using them as parts of like contracts?
What does blockchain solve that existing contracts don’t do? Blockchain has takeover possibility
Honestly I don’t know. I’m just pointing out the only thing that kind of sort of sounded like a good idea for it I’ve ever heard. For pictures it’s stupid that’s for sure
It’s not a picture though. It’s a link to a picture on a server somewhere. If the host goes down, you own nothing.
Isn’t it just a small amount of data? If the picture is small enough you could put it directly on the blockchain.
Dunno why you would though. It’s very limiting for no particular gain.
But in NFTs the picture is not on the Blockchain. Only a link to the picture is on the Blockchain and the picture itself is still just on the web.
The technology behind it can be used for things other than pictures. That’s kind of the point people are making
Right, and my original question was what does the technology solve? And so far the answer appears to be nothing
Yea the idea there is that with it being decentralized, it has an unedited history. So if each block added to the chain is a new transaction, you can see previous agreements. Being decentralized also means that it’s public record and everyone can see the contract/agreement/transaction.
There’s a lot of neat stuff that can be done, but as the other guy stated, it’s a solution looking for a problem.
Nah. the other commenters are wrong.
They’re super useful.
Its just that anyone who isn’t selling bullshit uses their real name- Merkel trees - which are fundamental to modern software development (git, zfs, nix, nosql).
Merkel is the previous chancelor of Germany, Merkle is a computer scientist ;)
Hash trees are a part of blockchains, but not the entire thing. This is kinda like saying acupuncture isn’t bullshit because needles are useful in real medicine as well.
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/exploring-science-acupuncture
Acupuncture actual does have clinical significant effects though.
I added an arxiv link and a stack overflow link that show that I’m not alone in this assertion of equivalence.
I blame autocorrect for the Merkle typos.
It’s a solution that allows two parties, who are so paranoid they don’t trust banks, let alone one another, to send funds and maintain a record of transactions with one another.
No, it requires a lot more than two parties, because the resulting “funds” from the transaction still have to be valued by everyone else that provide goods and services. So it becomes a social issue if it is to be a currency, and then you just end up re-discovering all the lessons that lead to how currencies already work.
The valuation of Bitcoin is a completely separate topic than practical use cases of blockchain.
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Blockchain / NFTs do not solve proof of ownership. Just ask all the people who had their NFTs or crypto stolen or lost in scams.
In your example, technically title fraud is more difficult because it needs to be done in two places. In reality it becomes far, far easier because you’ve now opened up a gigantic attack surface that you have no control over, and made both systems of verification worth less. If someone manages to compromise either one, there goes your proof of validity. Which one of them is real and which one is fraudulent?
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Don’t we already have systems for that? What about the vulnerabilities of blockchain takeover?
Exactly. Ryathal said it very well: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/15029423
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the way people use NFTs with art are certainly absurd, but even the core technology of NFTs is actually excellent
We’re quite a few years into “the blockchain will revolutionise the world” now and we still don’t really have anything but bitcoin and scams
I agree completely!
It’s a way of guaranteeing behavior when you shouldn’t have to trust any individual to review it. It’s a great tool for currency, but most people seem to prefer the system where we treat the companies behind the 2008 financial crisis as the trusted party.
Open with…
Paste
Ok I’m done for now.
Please clean up your mess.
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Explain how the interplanetary file system will distribute all of human knowledge to the galaxy and without block chain it wouldn’t work.
I think if humanity is on the stage of transmitting human knowledge throughout the galaxy today’s technology would be the equivalent of how we look at the first steam engine today
This would make a great NFT
I NFT’d in your mom’s pussy last night
Seems like an odd place to run a multilevel marketing scheme out of … but okay … I guess it helps solve the virgin problem =)
