I tried a couple license finders and I even looked into the OSI database but I could not find a license that works pretty much like agpl but requiring payment (combined 1% of revenue per month, spread evenly over all FOSS software, if applicable) if one of these is true:

  • the downstream user makes revenue (as in “is a company” or gets donations)
  • the downstream distributor is connected to a commercial user (e.g. to exclude google from making a non profit to circumvent this license)

I ask this because of the backdoor in xz and the obviously rotten situation in billion dollar companies not kicking their fair share back to the people providing this stuff.

So, if something similar exists, feel free to let me know.

Thanks for reading and have a good one.

  • CaptObvious@literature.cafe
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    8 months ago

    If you want to sell proprietary software, why not just write and sell it? Or as others have suggested, dual license it? Hell, even the old shareware model could work for what you’ve described.

    Unless you’re paying enforcers, how would you know if a corporation paid the right amount to use the code? How would your union determine distribution amounts to projects? How far upstream would payments go? How will disputes among developers be resolved?

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      Lots of foss use dual license: free for individual or non-profit use, but pay for commercial use, or even commercial use above a specific threshold. As part of my job, I’ve had to remove several of these, where the developer thinks it’s free but the corp can’t comply with the free licensing. It works.

      Here’s an extremely well known example

      I still haven’t decided what kind of company mine is with respect to foss. Its a good thing that they put effort into complying with licensing terms, they do support developers making contributions back, and historically they’ve “bought” a few foss projects (hire the developer, include that in his job responsibilities)! However I haven’t yet seen them make a corporate contribution and the first response with being out of compliance is to remove the dependency.

      So it’s good that we take it seriously, and good that we historically contributed, however we don’t seem to co tribute much anymore and clearly get more benefit from foss than we give back

      • Kelly@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        I thought Docker is FOSS but Desktop is not.

        Branding confusion aside they are distinct, but complimentary, products with distinct licensing.

    • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.comOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      8 months ago

      I dont want to write proprietary software. I write foss software. But i dont want you to make money off of my invention without giving back, easy as pie.

      The rest would obviously have to be determined. A union is a separate entity, same as the linux foundation seems to distribute donations (from another comment) it would have to be discussed and agreed upon.

      Still, those who use foss, make money and dont donate upstream are scum imo.

      • TimeSquirrel@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        This is not FOSS then. FOSS puts no restrictions on downstream use of your software other than that you acknowledge and credit the original authors… This is “Open Source” with strings attached. It’s no different than being forced to sign an NDA to see your code.

        You either make it free for everybody, or then it isn’t free software.

        • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.comOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          Wrong. Free in FOSS means freely distributable, not free of cost. My idea of cost is just different than “pay for download”.

          • TimeSquirrel@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            It does mean free of cost if the person downstream from you decides to not charge for it after getting it from you and forking it. That’s why you’re not finding a FOSS license that allows this. Because again, that’s not FOSS.

            • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.comOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              8 months ago

              The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license shall not require a royalty or other fee for such sale.

              So, if I understand this correctly, open source means free beer, just not if you sell the end product.

              its all a scam for free work for corpos then. Very disappointing.

              • Markaos@lemmy.one
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                So, if I understand this correctly, open source means free beer, just not if you sell the end product.

                Yes, once you give the beer to someone, you can’t require any further payments no matter what they do with it. Free software philosophy says users are free to use the software however they wish and for whatever purpose they wish without any barriers (like having to pay for commercial use).

                its all a scam for free work for corpos then. Very disappointing.

                I’m sorry you feel that way, and it’s becoming a not-so-rare sentiment lately (or at least I’ve started noticing it more), but I don’t agree. Look at (A)GPL and how many companies are doing their best to avoid such code - like when Google made their own C library for Android and even stated that its main goal was to avoid copyleft licenses. I’ve also seen plenty of people say that GPL code is pretty much useless for their work due to their company’s policies forbidding its use.

                I also think that revenue-based loyalties screw over small companies the most - sure, you get the donations from the massive companies that can work with 1% of their revenue gone while also keeping it free for non-commercial users, but in my view you also help those same massive corporations by making the software less viable for their smaller competitors who don’t have the economies of scale on their side, and for whom that 1% might legitimately break the bank.

                And to be clear, I don’t mean any of my arguments as some kind of “gotcha! Look, I’m right and you’re wrong”, I just thought I might share my reasoning for why I don’t think your statement is fair.

                • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.comOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  Thats a very reasonable answer, in brutal contrast to all the childish trolls in this community that flooded my inbox and are blocked now.

                  I‘ll probably just leave it at that. Its probably agpl forever for me since I‘m not giving my work to anyone who thinks they can just fuck over the little man. If we cant work out a foss version that is fair to devs then it is copyleft.

                  Still very disappointing. Thank you for providing the explanation though. I appreciate it.

      • twei@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        8 months ago

        Yeah, that’s cool and all, but your software isn’t FOSS if ppl have to pay to use it… Just license it under the AGPL and call it a day

        • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.comOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          8 months ago

          You dont understand what FOSS means then. Free in FOSS means freedom, not free beer. You can absolutely charge someone to use it, which I’m not suggesting. I’m saying if a corpo uses software under my idea of a license, they have to pay fairly, thats it.

          • twei@discuss.tchncs.de
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            I know what FOSS means, but it seems like you think a license only needs to comply with one of the rules set up by OSI to be a FOSS license. If you charge your users (corps are also users) licensing fees, then you’re discriminating against specific fields of endeavor (users making money using your software). I’d argue you’re also interfering with other software projects, as some projects are strictly refusing donations (uBlock Origin as a popular example). As a last point: how would a business know which software it’s using and how do you define what project should get how much of their 1% of revenue? If a business is using proprietary ERP-Software, and that is using any random FOSS-Library, then how would that business know that the library is being used and, assuming they found out, how would they determine how much to donate?

      • CaptObvious@literature.cafe
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        i dont want you to make money off of my invention without giving back

        Why do you think that you’re interested in writing FOSS software? Nothing you’ve posted here supports that claim. You do, however, speak like a textbook entrepreneur who wants to be paid for their innovation.

        • Atemu@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          Their concern is obviously solving the dire problem of FOSS maintainers not getting compensated for their work, not getting rich themselves.

        • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.comOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          8 months ago

          I have built stuff to help people all my life and have gotten fuck all for it. Its very easy to understand why I sound like this. Because I dont like people freeloading on others. Its selfish and disgusting.

          • CaptObvious@literature.cafe
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            If you don’t like people accepting what you freely offer, then don’t offer it. If you want to be paid, sell your work. It’s extraordinarily simple.

            • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.comOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              I dont like your condescending tone mate. I can have my opinion without having this and that ascribed to my personality every step of the way. Stop projecting.

              I‘m ending this now. Good bye.

              • Squizzy@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                Im an outsider to this community but I am confused by this. I actually do understand wanting to earn from your work but I wouldn’t then offer free stuff expecting money in return.

                I am not in IT but with my skillset I get paid from work and then I do charity work separately, I dont think it would make sense for me to find issue with the lack of return on my charitable time.

          • SheeEttin@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            8 months ago

            If you don’t want to give it away for free, then just don’t make it FOSS. It’s that simple. People use free-libre licenses because they want to use that license model. If you don’t want to, then don’t.

            • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.comOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              I‘m gonna say it again. Condescend and dogpile on someone else. I‘m trying to discuss something here. Good bye