a further reminder that neither of these people deserve your money
Rose McGowan and Evan Rachel Wood seem more trustworthy. Like, they don’t text Jonny Depp about fucking teenagers, for starters.
Billy Corgan looking like Bill Burrs evil twin
Bill Burr went to Saudi Arabia to help white wash the crimes of the regime, so just twin.
Man i really liked bill burr. Or his comedy. But after paper tiger, i just couldn’t even finish it. Maybe it got better, but he just sounded like dave chappelle.
Yeah, and I used to love Chappelle too. Now I kind of just hate stand up comedy as a whole.
Brothers from another mother often resemble each other…
That “I don’t want the world to tell me who my friends are” line really bothers me. Nobody asked him to stop being friends. He’s just upset that staying friends with known abusers has very obvious connotations, and wants to frame the two of them as victims instead. What a coward.
Corgan has a long history of being a whiny ass piece of shit to his fans that don’t get how much of a genius he really is.
So this is on brand for him.
And now he’s getting skewered by social media for not obeying the loudest people on it. We’re all free to have non-conforming opinions, as long as we don’t express them.
And now he’s getting skewered by social media
He’s getting skewered for standing by someone with dozens of allegations of sexual and domestic abuse against them.
Let’s be real here.
When you’ve known a person for years and truly doubt they’re guilty, it’s completely normal and natural to want them to be innocent, want to support them emotionally, and stick up for them. I hate people’s compulsion to jump into righteous avenging angel mode at every opportunity.
I hate people’s compulsion to jump into righteous avenging angel mode at every opportunity.
Weird because you seem perfectly fine jumping to righteous defense of sexual abusers against the “loudest people on social media” without a second look at any of the very real allegations.
Sigh. No, I’m defending Corgan for standing by a close friend and giving them the benefit of the doubt in spite of all the shit that’s getting thrown at him (Corgan). He (Corgan) shouldn’t be crucified for that.
He’s getting skewered for standing by someone with dozens of allegations of sexual and domestic abuse against them.
Let’s be real here.
And I’ll repeat my comment from elsewhere in this thread.
Corgan is welcome to stand by Manson, but that doesn’t mean he’s immune from public opinion. Defending people who defend abusers doesn’t have much of a distinction.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence. I do not have to be nice to the Westboro Baptist Church even though they are free to say the things they say. I do not have to be welcoming to homophobes, racists and war profiteers even though they may say things in scope of the law.
yeah that tends to happen when you stand with abusers. let me know when corgan gets arrested for it, until then maybe you want to google “free speech” and stop implicitly advocating to take away people’s speech just because it’s on social media. you aren’t free from criticism.
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Criticism, involves discussion. Nonconforming comments are frequently submerged by douchevotes so people won’t see them, with no engagement at all. To me that’s more like vandalism or plugging your ears and saying “na-na-na-na-na-na…”
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On social media an accusation is usually treated like a Guilty verdict. I have no idea what the Marilyn Manson thing is about, but on social media it really doesn’t matter. People like to take in minimal information and make an instant, irrevocable binary judgement - good or evil, swipe left or right. Mentioning nuance means you’re automatically on the wrong side. That’s junk thinking - organic brain “slop” - and the fact that it’s becoming more and more the standard is MUCH scarier than AI or any other external boogyman.
Since you were too fucking lazy to look into this at all before casting doubt on the victim’s stories:
The identities of the women police and prosecutors spoke to were not revealed, but “Game of Thrones” actor Esmé Bianco — who sued Manson in a case that has been settled — said she was part of the criminal investigation.
Bianco said she gave investigators evidence, including photos of her body covered in bites, knife wounds and bruises, as well as access to emails and text messages in which she said Manson threatened her immigration status.
In her lawsuit, Bianco accused Manson of sexual, physical and emotional abuse and said Manson violated human trafficking law by bringing her to California from England for nonexistent roles in music videos and movies.
Another woman sued Manson in 2021 with similar claims. Ashley Lindsay Morgan Smithline, a model and entertainer based in California, claimed Manson carved “MM” into her thigh, spewed antisemitic language at her, and isolated her in his home, where she was forced to work. She said Manson lured her into his home with the prospect of producing a film, only to be ensnared in a cycle of sexual and emotional abuse, forced confinement, and indentured servitude.
In addition to Bianco and Smithline, Manson was sued by dozens of other women, including his former assistant Ashley Walters, who claimed in a 2021 complaint that Manson offered her up to sexually please his famous friends and business contacts, including an actor and a director, between 2010 and 2011.
Wilson also claimed that Manson physically abused her with a whip and forced her to stay awake for 48 hours straight while force-feeding her cocaine.
Walters’ suit was dismissed in May 2022 by a Los Angeles County judge before a state appellate court revived the claims in 2023. Walters’ attorney told Courthouse News at the time that he expected the case to go to trial.
Manson was also accused of assault by his former fiancée, actor Evan Rachel Wood, in 2021. Wood claimed Manson groomed her when she was a teenager and raped her on camera at one point. The accusations led to Manson being dropped from his record label, and Manson sued Wood for defamation in 2022.
Singer Ellie Rowsell claimed in a series of tweets in 2021 that Manson filmed up her skirt with a GoPro when they were backstage at a music festival.
“There were no repercussions for his behavior, his tour manager simply said ‘he does this kind of thing all the time,’” Rowsell tweeted.
Singer Phoebe Bridgers, in since-deleted tweets from 2021, said she visited Manson’s home as a teenager and that he referred to a room as the “rape room.”
“The label knew, management knew, the band knew,” Bridgers said in a tweet deriding Manson’s circle for “pretending to be shocked and horrified” by the allegations.
More women came forward with accusations and lawsuits against Manson after Wood went public with hers. Not all of the women’s identities have been made public.
You could have saved all the effort of writing that essay if you didn’t imagine my support for Corgan was defending Manson. I’m defending Corgan for sticking up for a close friend he believes is innocent, in spite of all the shit he (Corgan) is taking for it.
Corgan rightfully should take shit for sticking up for a person with dozens of allegations of abuse against him.
He didn’t have to say anything publicly about it. He chose to do so.
And the public is allowed an opinion.
(PS it’s super funny that you mistook a whole article with a source linked as me typing up an essay hahahaha)
On social media an accusation is usually treated like a Guilty verdict. I have no idea what the Marilyn Manson thing is about, but on social media it really doesn’t matter. People like to take in minimal information and make an instant, irrevocable binary judgement - good or evil, swipe left or right. Mentioning nuance means you’re automatically on the wrong side. That’s junk thinking - organic brain “slop” - and the fact that it’s becoming more and more the standard is MUCH scarier than AI or any other external boogyman.
The fact that you’ll defend Marilyn fucking Manson without looking into the allegations at all just lays bare that you don’t believe victims ever.
Much more of an indictment of you than anyone throwing side eye at Marilyn Manson.
Reading comprehension, Velma. I’m not defending Manson, I’m defending Corgan for standing by a close friend he seems to believe is innocent.
Nah, your comment was directly defending Manson:
I have no idea what the Marilyn Manson thing is about, but on social media it really doesn’t matter. People like to take in minimal information and make an instant, irrevocable binary judgement - good or evil, swipe left or right.
That’s a direct defense of Manson, sweet Lovable Sidekick. Maybe the reading comprehension needs to be strengthened on your side of the aisle here.
The hell it is. All I’ve said is that Manson hasn’t been found guilty by due process, and it’s totally normal and human of Gorgan not to give up on a close friend. Somebody here told me to be real. That’s real. Either you’re human enough to see it or you’re not.
You literally said it doesn’t matter if Manson is guilty.
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Yeah Willy, but you can tell the world who you are, with you friends.
Does losing all your friendships make you more or less likely to improve your character?
Nobody says you have to abandon close friends that have made huge mistakes, you can help them through it while recognizing their faults - as long as they are doing the healthy thing in admitting culpability and working on positive ways forward.
What is generally ill-advised is telling the world that you are just going to ignore the mistakes or pretend they didn’t happen so thay you can keep hanging with your deeply-flawed buddy. That shit’s just unhealthy for all involved.
I can speak from experience here - one of our friend group, we’d been good friends for years without red flags that any of us noticed, was very credibly accused of rape, and we believed the victim’s story. None of us are still friends with the rapist any more. This is a good thing. Don’t remain friends with “friends that have made huge mistakes” if those “mistakes” have permanently traumatized victims and the “friend” turns out to be a fucking predator. That’s what we’re talking about under a Marilyn Manson story, not a “could happen to anyone” forgivable mistake.
That was aimed at your first paragraph. I agree with your second paragraph.
Yes, absolutely there are limits, and you have to weigh your personal investment and history with the friend and if it’s something you even want to (or can) move on from if they change.
I don’t know much about the Manson or Corgan stories, I was just responding to the question of ‘well what happens when these people lose all their friends, is that going to help them learn and grow?’.
I stuck with a friend despite him serially cheating on his wife, a mutual friend. I kept telling him to get a divorce and I didn’t celebrate his conquests. I thought he was maybe working through some things and might have needed someone to talk to.
I know that men in particular be very good friends to other men but eventually you learn they have problem considering women fully human, and then what do you with that after knowing someone for years? Especially when they were outwardly following the social scripts of acceptability.
Everyone draws lines around who they consider their tribe–whether it’s politics, race, gender, class… if you’re inside that tribe with someone, you don’t recognize their lines until maybe later, and even then it just seems kind of weird and abstract because it doesn’t effect you, and you know the person for the compassionate qualities they’ve shown to you and others in the tribe.
Is there a way to bring that person into the light by being a friend? Or if they are just going to withdraw more into a reactive hatred and tribal grievance if they are abandoned?
I eventually ended the relationship with my friend when it was clear he was just a self-centered asshole emotionally manipulating me for his own social comfort to feel less alone. Looking at Russel Brand from the outside, I wonder if he’s capable of being a good friend to anyone, even people he considers as part of his tribe.
And maybe my framing of in-tribe and out-tribe is naïve, a bit Polly Anna. Maybe the reality is that all these people are just assholes and if you could step outside the circle of their enchantment, you would be able to see that more clearly. Maybe moments like these are what should break the spell.
Ive watched so many friends fall. I used to try and help in my youth. Now I burn bridges like it’s the only option. Id rather not have friends then be surround by folks who dont carry respect of lifeforms outside themselves. … or dont respect themselves not to get stepped on by the former type. I actually cant deal with it.
I guess it’s a question of if they are being tribal or if they are really truly just self centered.
My girlfriend is Fox-news watching Trump voter. She never talks politics with me and she treats everyone well, regardless of race. It’s a weirdly compartmentalized thing, but it does make me uneasy.
