For those who are not clued into the intricacies of turkish (ethno-)nationalism, turanism is kind of like the odin-flavored racism in germany. They hate arabs so much they reject Islam (which is otherwise pretty core to turkish nationalism) because it’s an “arab religion”. It’s in a (not so coincidentally) similar vein to the odin-racists hating jews so much that they reject christianity due to it being a “semitic religion”. I could get into it more if needed but if you also browse the articles about the grey wolves (why are they called that 🤔) it should be fairly clear why that comm is a fascist op that is now being spread on lemmy
@mathemachristian@hexbear.net did you have anything to add to connect the dots here? I think you generally have good takes but I’m not understanding your claim here.
In short, no. He’s using links from reddit and saying that somehow means that this community is a fascist op due to it. They say that its too much effort to look for it in the community yet an hour later posted a slew of shit from reddit. This is now multiple weeks of a user having a post on /0 making a pretty hostile claim about ethnic groups using anecdotal evidence and it hasn’t been removed. He just keep saying “I’ve been busy” and “I’ll come up with something” followed by a slew of reddit nonsense.
Not to mention that his comments seem to be painting the groups as monolithic and all sharing a uniquely ‘aryan’ goal, as he keeps suggesting, but that in and of itself is xenophobic as hell. Like seriously…
I’m sorry but what the fuck.
Lol yeah, I know what you are saying, but it’s still additional context I guess. See https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/75434630/28389092 for my thoughts, but the tldr is that no, I don’t consider the community or the mod to be racist based on any “evidence” provided so far.
I’m sure hexbear hates it because it’s not Chinese enough, and must be “civilizied”.
sorry I sat down to get something but it’s gonna be a huge thing to unravel and honestly i just don’t have the time. I’m just gonna link the “criticism of pan-turkism” section of wikipedia here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Turkism#Criticism_of_pan-Turkism sorry for causing such a fuss and then going AWOL and then also not presenting a proper argument. But it would take a big effort just to get a dead comm deleted and I can’t justify that time investment.
thank you for sharing this. the whole article is insightful for how pan-turkism as an ideology originates in an ethnonationalist framework for resistance to the Russian Empire, which ultimately results in a neo-imperial ideal that stands in contrast to most other pan-identity movements that seek antinational liberation
nono it wasn’t resistance to the russian empire which would imply this came from the people, it was the ottoman empire seeking to legitimize it’s millet system and why the turkish people had more rights. They accepted the (then prevalent) european models that put language as the basis for an ethnicity at it’s center. There was huge academic exchange between the German and Austrian Orientalism institutes and the ottoman academia, since the Ottoman Empire was the main subject of their study. I’m just gonna link another wikipedia article for that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanism#Origins_and_definitions .
The “turkic identity” that then got left over in east europe (like for example the disastrous state of albania, the bosnia/serbia split, tatar’s in crimea) etc are left-overs from that idea that the ottoman empire promulgated to legitimize their millet system.
edit: you can kind of see why I nixed the effortpost here lol. I would have to research the level of exchange between european ethnology and the ottomans, explain the millet system, how that came to be, how it resulted in genocide, and then the real hard part of how it got transformed in modern turkey into the ülkücü movement and how they build ties to other right-wing groups in the post-soviet state, which might require an examination of turkey’s relationship with communism and communist countries and just how anti-communist they are (hint: the kurds are seen as the communists, but there are some hints of communist efforts left from before kemalism sweeping victory such as farmers co-ops [if you can get your hand on marmarabirlik olives they’re the best and you’re supporting a co-op])
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uh yeah have been real busy sry, I’ll come up with something soon hopefully. The tl;dr will be that anything about how all those varied cultures with nothing tying them together other than a shared language root 2,000 years ago should be united into a single ethnic group with it’s own nation is ethnonationalism. The whole concept of a “turkic family of nations” is parallel to the concept of an “aryan family of nations”. It’s a muddy definition born out of pseudoscience with the intent to spread racism.