Motor capacitor for an A/C compressor. A $15 part that a service company is going to charge $400 for a guy missing most of his teeth to replace in 2 minutes.
When I used to fix cars for a dealership we would sometimes have the service advisor ask us to do work for free. “Come on, it’ll just take you ten minutes!”
I’d tell them that they can do it themselves if it only takes ten minutes. “But I don’t know how to do that!”
You’re not just paying for the part, you’re paying for the knowledge, time, and tools of the technician.
And to be completely honest, if you call an HVAC repair company, they’re likely to do a whole PM cycle on it. Flush the condensate line and pan, clean the coils and the heat exchanger, replace the contactor if you have one, take the temperature differential to make sure the unit is operating reasonably well, replace the blower belt it’s not direct drive. I PM the unit myself every spring and fall. I probably should have had eyes on that cap though.
Yeah, testing caps is also a pretty regular part of our PM process. Especially because that one looks like it may partially be a run cap and a system can often run perfectly fine without a run cap except it will cause the motor to pull higher amps and run hotter. Catching a bad run cap early is the difference between replacing a bad cap and replacing a burned up motor.
Edit: Although you’re already doing far more for your system than most. I’m an actual tech and it’s been a shamefully long time since my equipment at home has had a full PM done.
That’s good to hear, thanks for that. Yes it’s a dual cap. I’ll have to dig out my LC meter and add that to my list.
It was a new build, my old plays I didn’t stay on top of things and ended up paying for it. I decided to do a better job here.
My very first maintenance I went down to look at what I needed to do. It’s a trane unit, so the evaporator coil and the condensate pan come out on a slide which is pretty fancy. The condensate line, combustion and exhaust air are all PVC and they glued it all so you couldn’t get the tray out. (The air lines don’t even go into the box they just ran it past the front for spite I think)
Hope you don’t mind if I ask you two questions, not holding you accountable or anything.
What are you guys using for condenser coil cleaner? I just got some off-the-shelf home Depot stuff but it looks sus. I pulled the case and separated the coils out at the two-year mark and followed the instructions on the cleaner. I didn’t see any physical dirt anywhere and there’s no leaves or debris. Without physical dust dirt or debris do you think just hosing it down from the outside on PM is fine?
My very first maintenance I went down to look at what I needed to do. It’s a trane unit, so the evaporator coil and the condensate pan come out on a slide which is pretty fancy.
If it’s the style I’m thinking of then you are flexing the refrigerant pipes whenever you do that. It’s designed to do that but just be aware that copper work hardens so you can only flex it so many times before it gets brittle and snaps. With your system being new there isn’t too much risk of snapping a line but it won’t be new forever. If it is possible to clean the evap without bending those pipes then that is the best way to do it.
As far as coil cleaner goes the most we ever recommend one of our customers use is just plain water out of a gardenhose (definitely not a pressurewasher). For most people that should be enough. But you’re not my customer so here’s what I use depending on the coil.
For small evap coils like a residential central air system I often use Evap Foam No Rinse. That stuff is pretty gentle and probably fine for most people to use. If kills any growth on the coil and foams up to push dirt out of the coil. Once applied it doesn’t need to be actively rinsed off because it’s designed to be rinsed off just by the condensation that builds up on the coil as the system runs.
For larger evap coils like in commercial roof top units or more heavily soiled evaps I will use either Tri-Pow’r HD or Evap Pow’r-C. I’ve found both to be about equally as effective but the evap cleaner does foam up a bit more. Both are still fairly safe to use but if you mix them more concentrated then you do need to actively rinse off the coil well when you’re done. I have a hard time imagining anyone breaking anything with either of these but technically they can do damage if left on the coil for too long.
When it comes to the new style microchannel condensers, heavily degraded older style fin and tube condensers, or lightly soiled older style condensers, I will also use Tri-Pow’r HD except I will mix it much stronger.
When it comes to heavily soiled older style fin and tube condensers which are otherwise in good physical shape I will use Nu-Brite. Nu-Brite is nasty shit. It will instantly burn skin, melt plastic, strip any oxidation off of metal, etch concrete, strip paint, strip the coating entirely off a coated coil, and, if left on a coil long enough, etch holes through the condenser pipes forcing you to buy a whole new condensing unit. It literally starts to smoke if it sits on the coil too long. It is aggressive as hell but man does it clean coils. I was working at a flour mill recently and made extensive use of this stuff to clean mouldering packed in flour mud out of condensers and it takes no time at all to do it’s job even with the worst soils. This stuff is perfectly safe to use if you use it right but if you don’t use it right then there is basically no fixing the damage it does. If you ever did decide to use it, just be sure to have a hose nearby ready to hose it off as quick and completely as possible. Once it starts foaming and smoking it has started doing damage.
Thank you so much taking the time to write all that, its truly useful information… I would have completely overlooked the no rinse stuff for fear it was a sales gimmick.
I think I’ll probably hose wash down every season, foam it If the water coming off has anything in it and save the teardown for 5-year or special event.
There’s not really much here in the way of sand or dust. It’s mounted off the ground. The hose should be able to get smoke particulate and pollen off.
It’s going to depend on the area, but it shouldn’t cost quite that much for residential work. Hell, I’m a commercial refrigeration/hvac mechanic and my bill would still be less for that repair. You actually made me curious so I priced it out. TLDR if you don’t want to read below it comes out to $310 before taxes. So unless you’re in a stupidly expensive area your price should be under that for this repair from a residential HVAC tech. My best guess is that it would cost about $250 in my somewhat low cost of living area if done properly by a residential tech.
Price breakdown-
We upcharge a bit on parts depending on their cost (cheaper parts are upcharged more) but we also get a discounted price from the supply house so the actual upcharge amount is a bit weird to calculate. We do have one of these caps in our system (its 440V instead but oversizing doesn’t hurt) and our unit price (markup included) on it is $25. If this system has other start components then you would want to change those as well but I don’t know what this system looks like so I’m going to assume that only this cap is needed. Depending on the distance from the shop we charge a one time truck charge. However the main reason we have variable truck charges is because we’re more specialized and some of our customers are over 200 miles from our shop. Odds are for residential work you’d be working with a local company and for local work we charge our minimum truck charge of $45. If this was durring business hours then we charge $120 per hour. Afterhours rates are much higher of course but usually nobody is calling a tech afterhours to work on residential AC. Drive times to and from the site are included in the billed hours.
As far as time required a quick cap swap could easily be within our 1 hour minimum depending on drive time to the site but with this situation I would guess 2 hours may be more likely for reasons I’m about to explain. The cap is obviously bulged so any tech worth their salt would pinpoint it immediately. Of course any tech worth their salt is also going to check out the other components to ensure that there isn’t a reason the cap blew. That means checking contactors, compressor windings, and ither caps. Once the new cap is installed that also means checking running amps and inrush current. While you’re at it you’ll want to at least check refrigerant line temps because that’ll give you a rough read on the system charge and state of the coils. For this unit I wouldn’t be hooking gauges up unless something was off with the temps and couldn’t be easily explained. It’s also just a good idea to watch the system run for a bit and make sure it cycles on/off correctly to make sure it’s not short cycling or something. With all that you could be looking at an hour onsite. Depending on the system and the delays you can’t really shave that down much if the tech is going to be able to see the unit run. If you cut out watching the system run basically entirely you can shave 30min off that but that’s also a sure fire way to get a callback for something you didn’t catch. The bigger issue though is that this is a dual value cap. It isn’t going to be standard van stock and until the tech gets onsite they won’t know what cap they need. So you’re looking at that tech also having to make a trip back to the shop to pick up the correct cap. I carry universal caps in my van but those are much more expensive so they’re really only for emergency repairs or to temporarily run a system if we need to order a specific cap. So if we assume 15min from the shop to the customer and the tech has to make that trip 4 times (out to customer, back to get part, back to customer, and back to shop when done) then were looking at an hour just in drive time.
So in total we have 2 hours of $120 per hour labor + $45 truck charge + $25 part = $310 plus relevant taxes.
What am I looking at?
Motor capacitor for an A/C compressor. A $15 part that a service company is going to charge $400 for a guy missing most of his teeth to replace in 2 minutes.
When I used to fix cars for a dealership we would sometimes have the service advisor ask us to do work for free. “Come on, it’ll just take you ten minutes!”
I’d tell them that they can do it themselves if it only takes ten minutes. “But I don’t know how to do that!”
You’re not just paying for the part, you’re paying for the knowledge, time, and tools of the technician.
And to be completely honest, if you call an HVAC repair company, they’re likely to do a whole PM cycle on it. Flush the condensate line and pan, clean the coils and the heat exchanger, replace the contactor if you have one, take the temperature differential to make sure the unit is operating reasonably well, replace the blower belt it’s not direct drive. I PM the unit myself every spring and fall. I probably should have had eyes on that cap though.
Yeah, testing caps is also a pretty regular part of our PM process. Especially because that one looks like it may partially be a run cap and a system can often run perfectly fine without a run cap except it will cause the motor to pull higher amps and run hotter. Catching a bad run cap early is the difference between replacing a bad cap and replacing a burned up motor.
Edit: Although you’re already doing far more for your system than most. I’m an actual tech and it’s been a shamefully long time since my equipment at home has had a full PM done.
That’s good to hear, thanks for that. Yes it’s a dual cap. I’ll have to dig out my LC meter and add that to my list.
It was a new build, my old plays I didn’t stay on top of things and ended up paying for it. I decided to do a better job here.
My very first maintenance I went down to look at what I needed to do. It’s a trane unit, so the evaporator coil and the condensate pan come out on a slide which is pretty fancy. The condensate line, combustion and exhaust air are all PVC and they glued it all so you couldn’t get the tray out. (The air lines don’t even go into the box they just ran it past the front for spite I think)
Hope you don’t mind if I ask you two questions, not holding you accountable or anything.
What are you guys using for condenser coil cleaner? I just got some off-the-shelf home Depot stuff but it looks sus. I pulled the case and separated the coils out at the two-year mark and followed the instructions on the cleaner. I didn’t see any physical dirt anywhere and there’s no leaves or debris. Without physical dust dirt or debris do you think just hosing it down from the outside on PM is fine?
If it’s the style I’m thinking of then you are flexing the refrigerant pipes whenever you do that. It’s designed to do that but just be aware that copper work hardens so you can only flex it so many times before it gets brittle and snaps. With your system being new there isn’t too much risk of snapping a line but it won’t be new forever. If it is possible to clean the evap without bending those pipes then that is the best way to do it.
As far as coil cleaner goes the most we ever recommend one of our customers use is just plain water out of a gardenhose (definitely not a pressurewasher). For most people that should be enough. But you’re not my customer so here’s what I use depending on the coil.
For small evap coils like a residential central air system I often use Evap Foam No Rinse. That stuff is pretty gentle and probably fine for most people to use. If kills any growth on the coil and foams up to push dirt out of the coil. Once applied it doesn’t need to be actively rinsed off because it’s designed to be rinsed off just by the condensation that builds up on the coil as the system runs.
For larger evap coils like in commercial roof top units or more heavily soiled evaps I will use either Tri-Pow’r HD or Evap Pow’r-C. I’ve found both to be about equally as effective but the evap cleaner does foam up a bit more. Both are still fairly safe to use but if you mix them more concentrated then you do need to actively rinse off the coil well when you’re done. I have a hard time imagining anyone breaking anything with either of these but technically they can do damage if left on the coil for too long.
When it comes to the new style microchannel condensers, heavily degraded older style fin and tube condensers, or lightly soiled older style condensers, I will also use Tri-Pow’r HD except I will mix it much stronger.
When it comes to heavily soiled older style fin and tube condensers which are otherwise in good physical shape I will use Nu-Brite. Nu-Brite is nasty shit. It will instantly burn skin, melt plastic, strip any oxidation off of metal, etch concrete, strip paint, strip the coating entirely off a coated coil, and, if left on a coil long enough, etch holes through the condenser pipes forcing you to buy a whole new condensing unit. It literally starts to smoke if it sits on the coil too long. It is aggressive as hell but man does it clean coils. I was working at a flour mill recently and made extensive use of this stuff to clean mouldering packed in flour mud out of condensers and it takes no time at all to do it’s job even with the worst soils. This stuff is perfectly safe to use if you use it right but if you don’t use it right then there is basically no fixing the damage it does. If you ever did decide to use it, just be sure to have a hose nearby ready to hose it off as quick and completely as possible. Once it starts foaming and smoking it has started doing damage.
Thank you so much taking the time to write all that, its truly useful information… I would have completely overlooked the no rinse stuff for fear it was a sales gimmick.
I think I’ll probably hose wash down every season, foam it If the water coming off has anything in it and save the teardown for 5-year or special event.
There’s not really much here in the way of sand or dust. It’s mounted off the ground. The hose should be able to get smoke particulate and pollen off.
Thanks again.
Not a problem. In my area the bug thing is cottonwood. If you dont have that stuff around the coils stay much easier to clean.
It’s going to depend on the area, but it shouldn’t cost quite that much for residential work. Hell, I’m a commercial refrigeration/hvac mechanic and my bill would still be less for that repair. You actually made me curious so I priced it out. TLDR if you don’t want to read below it comes out to $310 before taxes. So unless you’re in a stupidly expensive area your price should be under that for this repair from a residential HVAC tech. My best guess is that it would cost about $250 in my somewhat low cost of living area if done properly by a residential tech.
Price breakdown-
We upcharge a bit on parts depending on their cost (cheaper parts are upcharged more) but we also get a discounted price from the supply house so the actual upcharge amount is a bit weird to calculate. We do have one of these caps in our system (its 440V instead but oversizing doesn’t hurt) and our unit price (markup included) on it is $25. If this system has other start components then you would want to change those as well but I don’t know what this system looks like so I’m going to assume that only this cap is needed. Depending on the distance from the shop we charge a one time truck charge. However the main reason we have variable truck charges is because we’re more specialized and some of our customers are over 200 miles from our shop. Odds are for residential work you’d be working with a local company and for local work we charge our minimum truck charge of $45. If this was durring business hours then we charge $120 per hour. Afterhours rates are much higher of course but usually nobody is calling a tech afterhours to work on residential AC. Drive times to and from the site are included in the billed hours.
As far as time required a quick cap swap could easily be within our 1 hour minimum depending on drive time to the site but with this situation I would guess 2 hours may be more likely for reasons I’m about to explain. The cap is obviously bulged so any tech worth their salt would pinpoint it immediately. Of course any tech worth their salt is also going to check out the other components to ensure that there isn’t a reason the cap blew. That means checking contactors, compressor windings, and ither caps. Once the new cap is installed that also means checking running amps and inrush current. While you’re at it you’ll want to at least check refrigerant line temps because that’ll give you a rough read on the system charge and state of the coils. For this unit I wouldn’t be hooking gauges up unless something was off with the temps and couldn’t be easily explained. It’s also just a good idea to watch the system run for a bit and make sure it cycles on/off correctly to make sure it’s not short cycling or something. With all that you could be looking at an hour onsite. Depending on the system and the delays you can’t really shave that down much if the tech is going to be able to see the unit run. If you cut out watching the system run basically entirely you can shave 30min off that but that’s also a sure fire way to get a callback for something you didn’t catch. The bigger issue though is that this is a dual value cap. It isn’t going to be standard van stock and until the tech gets onsite they won’t know what cap they need. So you’re looking at that tech also having to make a trip back to the shop to pick up the correct cap. I carry universal caps in my van but those are much more expensive so they’re really only for emergency repairs or to temporarily run a system if we need to order a specific cap. So if we assume 15min from the shop to the customer and the tech has to make that trip 4 times (out to customer, back to get part, back to customer, and back to shop when done) then were looking at an hour just in drive time.
So in total we have 2 hours of $120 per hour labor + $45 truck charge + $25 part = $310 plus relevant taxes.
A good reminder to not test unknown capacitors with the tip of your tongue.
I used to work as an ac parts coordinator in a very affluent area. I know what they cost and those bills these people were paying were disgusting!