Shameful

  • geissi@feddit.org
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    3 days ago

    Read The Color Purple or Their Eyes Were Watching God

    Do they contain sociological studies that support your claim that

    Germany has a special relationship with "whiteness”

    Otherwise I don’t see what you think this is adding to the conversation.

    As for The Magic Mountain:

    its perspective from the eve of WW1 mirrors our current position

    We currently don’t have European empires in a mutual standoff waiting for the powder-keg to be lit. By all accounts most people are more reminded of the inter-war period with the rising fascism.

    The Magic Mountain is easily one of the most important novels of the 20th century

    I never disagreed but being important does not automatically make it anti-fascist.

    In 1933, when Hitler came to power, Mann moved his own family to Switzerland

    And just like his cold war experiences that you quoted before, this happened after he published Zauberberg in 1924.
    At the time, Mussolini’s regime had barely begun and Hitler was a failed putschist in jail.

    Come up with a better argument if you want to cut me down.

    Dude, your only “arguments” are wikipedia quotes about Mann’s life after he published the book, completely unrelated literature recommendations and an unexplained association of fascism with the eve of WWI.

    • supersquirrel@lemmy.caBanned from communityOP
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      3 days ago

      I honestly find it hilarious you don’t think The Magic Mountain is one of the most antifascist novels ever written, and one of the most effective and wholistic takedowns of fascism ever created in any form ever… your understanding of history must be so mutilated into discrete bloody boxes one preceding after another with no connection between one and another…

      Six months later, Mann resumed work on the novel he had begun before the war: The Magic Mountain. His development and completion of the manuscript occurred in tandem with a dramatic political reorientation: deeply shaken by the assassination of Foreign Minister Walter Rathenau in 1922, Mann took a decisive stand in defense of the fragile, embattled Weimar Republic. In his essays and speeches of the second half of the 1920s, he continued to warn Germans of the threat posed by the National Socialist Party. Had he not left Germany when he did, it is very likely that he would have been arrested and interned in the Dachau concentration camp.

      https://yalereview.org/article/morten-jensen-thomas-mann

      • geissi@feddit.org
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        2 days ago

        your understanding of history must be so mutilated

        I beg you to open a history book and look up when the rise of fascism happened.
        In 1924 the NSDAP was a bunch of violent thugs pretending to be socialists. Their rise to power happened a decade later. The only fascist was Mussolini and he had not yet fully implemented all that we nowadays call fascism.

        You have not made one single argument that actually ties anything in the book to fascism.
        You keep quoting articles about Mann’s later life but the only reference you made to the book itself was mentioning the eve of WWI which at least time-wise sets the action before the rise of fascism.

        You have not identified one anti-fascist theme in the book nor quoted any literary analysis that does so.

        If you desperately want to make this argument, then you have to ask yourself:
        What is fascism? What are its defining characteristics? Where does the book address them?
        And which themes are specific to fascism? Contemplating mortality as such is not.

        • supersquirrel@lemmy.caBanned from communityOP
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          2 days ago

          You have not made one single argument that actually ties anything in the book to fascism.

          So you did not bother to read the article I linked before responding?

          Yes I have.

          • geissi@feddit.org
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            2 days ago

            Yes I read it.
            It has not a single reference to fascism in the 1920s.

            The Weimar Republic was embattled primarily by monarchists and socialists/ communists; the NSDAP had not yet risen to power and not established fascism in Germany.
            The Dachau concentration camp was opened in 1933, a decade after the book was published.

            Again, you have not talked about anything actually in the book that relates to fascism.

            • supersquirrel@lemmy.caBanned from communityOP
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              2 days ago

              So is Mein Kampf not fascist because it predates 1933 too?

              Get out of here with this lazy shit, Naptha is clearly a fascist in all but name in The Magic Mountain.

              • geissi@feddit.org
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                2 days ago

                Are you claiming The Magic Mountain is a reaction to Mein Kampf, a book that had not been published by then?

                Naptha is clearly a fascist in all but name

                Now, this is actually an argument engaging with the material.
                It’s been ages since I read the book, can you remind me what Naphtha says and does and how the book critically engages with that.

                • supersquirrel@lemmy.caBanned from communityOP
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                  2 days ago

                  Are you claiming The Magic Mountain is a reaction to Mein Kampf, a book that had not been published by then?

                  …no?

                  • geissi@feddit.org
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                    2 days ago

                    So, did Mann know what Adolf would write in his book or what the Nazis would do in the 30s and 40s?
                    Did he know what Mussolini would get up to in the next decades?

                    No? Then he couldn’t have reacted to that. So none of that can be relevant to what he had written in 1924.

                    Now, it’s not unheard of that authors can see the proverbial writing on the wall and anticipate future events to some degree. But to argue that you would also have to actually point to his writing and draw parallels. You can’t just point at later events as proof for what is in the book.