Rihanna Kelver has maintained that Scott Durham hurled anti-trans slurs and pushed her to the ground outside the Crowbar & Grille in Laramie before she pulled out a gun. Still, police arrested Kelver on charges including aggravated assault and possession of a deadly weapon with unlawful intent.
Is normal. In every self defense case you can absolutely EXPECT to be jailed until you’re arraigned at your hearing, and possibly until you’re cleared entirely. MAYBE the DA declines to bring charges, but probably not, unless it’s a clear break in, in a castle doctrine state, though it does happen (for all the smartasses about to post “b-b-b-but this case.”) Yeah, not every DA is the same person, and it even depends on if they’re having a good day or not.
While Wyoming has a “stand your ground” law allowing individuals to defend themselves if they reasonably believe they face an imminent threat, prosecutors have argued that the law does not apply because Kelver allegedly started the altercation.
Yes. SYG and CD laws offer some protection for self defense, but, it is still advisable to attempt deescalation when possible. You’d rather that than this literal exact scenario. It’s supposed to be your absolute last resort. No, just because there are some miscarriages of justice, that does not mean you should try and test it, unless you’re fine with gambling on 25 to life I guess.
According to court testimony, Kelver was sitting on a bench outside the bar on September 13 when Durham and a small group of friends shouted derogatory slurs. Surveillance video shows that she then followed the group across the street before approaching Durham with a hand on her satchel, according to the Laramie Boomerang. The video then shows Durham shoving her to the ground before beginning to walk away.
Ok, not looking good. “Words were exchanged” ok, call them something back. “Got up, followed…across the street” now you’re edging into escalation. “Hand on the satchel,” dude honestly a good lawyer may be able to argue premeditation on that at this point, real bad look. “…before beginning to walk away,” legally a retreat, not “threat of death or great bodily injury” which is the prerequisite standard for using lethal force. That’s REAL bad for your case. Your gun isn’t supposed to be punitive, once they start leaving and “the encounter™” is over, that’s it, you have to call the cops.
Kelver, while still on her back, allegedly pulled out a .380-caliber semiautomatic handgun, racked it, and pointed it at Durham. She put the gun away after Durham and his group walked away, then returned to her job at the Crowbar & Grille, according to the prosecution.
Honestly? I’m not mad at it. No shots fired, just brandishing? Tbh brandishing should be more legal than it is, depending on the situation. THAT SAID: because of the whole “they 100% ‘legally’ escalated it” thing? This is a toughy. It’s 100% not currently legal, tbf, but should it be? Honestly, idk, this one still might fall outside of “acceptable” to me, but it’s pretty fucking close to the line. The crossing the street to continue the issue and pulling it while he’s walking away are tough to reconcile though, honestly.
Transgender people are disproportionately likely to become victims of violent crime.
Very true, but by following the aggressors across a street, you’re putting yourself in more danger. It becomes hard to argue you feared for your life when you walked towards them, make them come to you, then you have an easier case.
After investigators determined that she had drawn a loaded gun, prosecutors charged her with felony aggravated assault and battery, felony possession of a deadly weapon with unlawful intent, and misdemeanor interference with a peace officer.
Alright well that’s a little much. Still, the headline here is that she’s being overcharged, she 100% broke the standard of self defense that applies to even me, the “untouchable” white cis male. Call it brandishing and leave it at that.
The government has maintained that Kelver initiated the confrontation by approaching Durham while keeping her hand on the satchel containing the gun.
Called it. They’d do the same to me, a cis white malw, this is a part of the standard for self defense. This is (part of) why I always advise newcomers “it isn’t enough just to buy one, you need to learn the local laws regarding use of force.” It’s VERY easy to find yourself in a bad case.
Andrew Holcomb, Kelver’s attorney, disputed that characterization. “When Ms. Kelver heard targeted slurs, heard threats, then was shoved to the ground, her fear did not come from nowhere,” Holcomb said. “It came from the circumstances.”
I know nobody here wants to hear it, but here’s the prosecutor’s inevitable response:
When Ms. Kelver heard targeted slurs, heard threats,
She went towards the aggressor, not away.
then was shoved to the ground
After walking towards the aggression
her fear did not come from nowhere,” Holcomb said. “It came from the circumstances.”
That she placed herself in by walking towards the fight to continue it, rather than deescalating.
That WILL be what the prosecution uses, and she WILL be convicted just like I would unless the jury can be… well… fooled.
Is normal. In every self defense case you can absolutely EXPECT to be jailed until you’re arraigned at your hearing, and possibly until you’re cleared entirely. MAYBE the DA declines to bring charges, but probably not, unless it’s a clear break in, in a castle doctrine state, though it does happen (for all the smartasses about to post “b-b-b-but this case.”) Yeah, not every DA is the same person, and it even depends on if they’re having a good day or not.
Yes. SYG and CD laws offer some protection for self defense, but, it is still advisable to attempt deescalation when possible. You’d rather that than this literal exact scenario. It’s supposed to be your absolute last resort. No, just because there are some miscarriages of justice, that does not mean you should try and test it, unless you’re fine with gambling on 25 to life I guess.
Ok, not looking good. “Words were exchanged” ok, call them something back. “Got up, followed…across the street” now you’re edging into escalation. “Hand on the satchel,” dude honestly a good lawyer may be able to argue premeditation on that at this point, real bad look. “…before beginning to walk away,” legally a retreat, not “threat of death or great bodily injury” which is the prerequisite standard for using lethal force. That’s REAL bad for your case. Your gun isn’t supposed to be punitive, once they start leaving and “the encounter™” is over, that’s it, you have to call the cops.
Honestly? I’m not mad at it. No shots fired, just brandishing? Tbh brandishing should be more legal than it is, depending on the situation. THAT SAID: because of the whole “they 100% ‘legally’ escalated it” thing? This is a toughy. It’s 100% not currently legal, tbf, but should it be? Honestly, idk, this one still might fall outside of “acceptable” to me, but it’s pretty fucking close to the line. The crossing the street to continue the issue and pulling it while he’s walking away are tough to reconcile though, honestly.
Very true, but by following the aggressors across a street, you’re putting yourself in more danger. It becomes hard to argue you feared for your life when you walked towards them, make them come to you, then you have an easier case.
Alright well that’s a little much. Still, the headline here is that she’s being overcharged, she 100% broke the standard of self defense that applies to even me, the “untouchable” white cis male. Call it brandishing and leave it at that.
Called it. They’d do the same to me, a cis white malw, this is a part of the standard for self defense. This is (part of) why I always advise newcomers “it isn’t enough just to buy one, you need to learn the local laws regarding use of force.” It’s VERY easy to find yourself in a bad case.
I know nobody here wants to hear it, but here’s the prosecutor’s inevitable response:
She went towards the aggressor, not away.
After walking towards the aggression
That she placed herself in by walking towards the fight to continue it, rather than deescalating.
That WILL be what the prosecution uses, and she WILL be convicted just like I would unless the jury can be… well… fooled.