Now of course this surveillance state is likely used to monitor and collect dissidents, but those are circles I don’t hang out in
So you are stating that they are wrong, while simultaneously saying you don’t know anything about it. And then applying that appeal to ignorance to everybody else in an attempt to forestall any claim that of course the authoritarian one-part state of China is using their ginormous surveillance apparatus to quell political dissidence.
I agreed that the Chinese live under a far more massive surveillance state than Americans. The issue is that the vibe of it is completely different from the USA’s. I would be super paranoid about surveillance equipment in the USA being anywhere around me because I know that it’s used basically to extract money from the citizenry in the guise of “fines” that line the pockets of police officials and their cronies in the consulting world.
Here, despite being under surveillance from practically the moment I leave my building’s front door until I reach my workplace or another person’s home or the like I’ve never, not even once in 25 years, had that surveillance intrude into my life. I have, however, lived through the period before the surveillance was put into place and where theft of many kinds (bicycles and scooters were what I saw happening most) was commonplace.
The issue is that the Chinese government is all about “social stability” and they’re smart enough to know that if surveillance was used America-style—as rent extraction, basically—that this leads to instability. So they very publicly use it against crime, selling it as a net positive to their citizens. The vibe is completely different.
(Note: I’m not denying that it’s weaponized against dissidence. Dissidents cause “social instability” and … well, yeah. Guess what the Chinese government is allergic to. I just lack any direct information about this.)
Well I don’t know your situation but just in case it is useful I would remind you to consider the possibility that “dissidents” of some kinds that the state would punish if they were found out might be more common than you imagine.
So you are stating that they are wrong, while simultaneously saying you don’t know anything about it. And then applying that appeal to ignorance to everybody else in an attempt to forestall any claim that of course the authoritarian one-part state of China is using their ginormous surveillance apparatus to quell political dissidence.
I say they are wrong and I clearly delineate where my knowledge ends.
As opposed to people who claim to know everything that goes on inside China without having once set foot in it.
The first is called “intellectual honesty”.
The second is called “being American”.
Uh, what exactly was said that you thought was wrong?
I agreed that the Chinese live under a far more massive surveillance state than Americans. The issue is that the vibe of it is completely different from the USA’s. I would be super paranoid about surveillance equipment in the USA being anywhere around me because I know that it’s used basically to extract money from the citizenry in the guise of “fines” that line the pockets of police officials and their cronies in the consulting world.
Here, despite being under surveillance from practically the moment I leave my building’s front door until I reach my workplace or another person’s home or the like I’ve never, not even once in 25 years, had that surveillance intrude into my life. I have, however, lived through the period before the surveillance was put into place and where theft of many kinds (bicycles and scooters were what I saw happening most) was commonplace.
The issue is that the Chinese government is all about “social stability” and they’re smart enough to know that if surveillance was used America-style—as rent extraction, basically—that this leads to instability. So they very publicly use it against crime, selling it as a net positive to their citizens. The vibe is completely different.
(Note: I’m not denying that it’s weaponized against dissidence. Dissidents cause “social instability” and … well, yeah. Guess what the Chinese government is allergic to. I just lack any direct information about this.)
Well I don’t know your situation but just in case it is useful I would remind you to consider the possibility that “dissidents” of some kinds that the state would punish if they were found out might be more common than you imagine.
I do consider the possibility.
Do you consider that the number of dissidents here might be far lower than you believe?
Of course — most of my info comes from people who left there for Canada, not exactly an unbiased crowd.