Right now there is a loneliness epidemic throughout the world. More and more people aren’t entering relationships. Gen Z men are having significant trouble dating while there are some economic factors in the mix. From my own view and experiences combined with what I’ve read most Gen Z men are lack the social and communication skills to even enter a relationship. This has and in the future will lead to extreme issues. There’s already been a marked rise in hostility towards women by young men (think Andrew Tate and his ilk) that’s likely born out of this frustration. I would definitely say there’s been a rise in gender hostility ever since the pandemic.
Back in the 50s there was arranged marriages. All a person had to do was just show but now that’s gone because it was an unequal system and I think society missed its chance to establish something much healthier and better in its wake. Now we have people that are unable to connect with each other. We just toss people blindly into the mess that is human interaction and relationships and no one knows what to do anymore. We could be have the most fulfilling relationships humans have ever had. Think of the amount of people who would of never have entered abusive relationships had there been someone around them that showed them what love exactly is.
The way we teach is so heavily focused on teaching people how to be worker drones that we forget the human part of the person. This is why a lot of people who do extreme well in school and college fare so poorly in relationships and have higher rates of depression. We are the most educated and advanced in human history, we know psychology, we can teach this shit rather than tossing people blindly into the meat grinder.
I would like to see people educated how to argue without getting personal. And how to communicate that you aren’t in a mood to argue right now, because you’re angry and wouldn’t listen.
A good start for sure would be to learn to listen and understand, not listen to answer.
Arguing is a path to understanding. We don’t argue just to create pain, it’s got a purpose to it.
- What healthy boundaries look like
- The importance of your own interests/activities/time
- How to survive limerence/infatuation without sacrificing yourself
- How to manage emotional responses without just tanking damage
- How to express anger without getting nasty/toxic
- How to recognise NPD / BPD before getting entangled
Maybe not demonizing bpd. Bpd is treatable and people with bpd already suffer a lot of stigma and psychological pain. They don’t act insane just to hurt you or because it brings them pleasure
Yeah, lived through the first 25 years of my life subject to rampant unchecked cluster-B abuse, and nobody even told me things weren’t meant to be that way.
I don’t give two shits about intent, the impact is the same regardless. Like an overly curious bear or something.
See it, recognise it, walk in the opposite fucking direction. And if it follows you, you scream and throw rocks.
And mention things like polyamory. I was 40 before realizing that was an option…
Yeap. I mean, you’d utterly break people’s brains but dammit.
Imagine a world where you’re only ever allowed to have one friend at a time, and anything else was actually considered justification for murder.
I don’t really understand humans.
We just toss people blindly into the mess that is human interaction and relationships and no one knows what to do anymore.
I mean, to be fair, that’s kind of always been the case to some extent. Not that it’s an excuse or a good thing to have, of course.
It is true that schools don’t teach many or any life skills, and it’s unfortunate. Schools should also teach budgeting and real day-to-day life stuff but they just don’t.
I think people focus way too much on romantic relationships. And many seem to see them as their lazy ticket out of loneliness.
If you want to improve social skills and alleviate loneliness people have to start and grow healthy communities, friendships and family bonds.
Capitalist thinking has reached interpersonal relationships. Instead of seeking community, people focus on how to optimise their dating market strategies and such. That’s pretty fucked up.
I think that’s also the reason why people lack interpersonal bonds. Investing into communities, friendships, relationships doesn’t fit into a world that is focused on linear progress and material gain. Applying this type of thinking (success, optimization, comparison, …) seems to lead mostly to resentment.
But community is not something you can teach, I think. You can facilitate it by providing opportunities for community building. Like the so called third place and enough time for people to get together casually.
Ultimately it’s something we inherit from generations before, though. And we only stray ever further from it. It’s in our hands now to do it in our lifes, online and in our neighborhoods etc.
Schools should formally teach a lot of basic life skills these days like budgeting, manners, cooking, hygiene, sex ed — because a lot of parents aren’t doing this anymore.
They used to teach these things in school. Then the boomers axed home economics programs in schools to save a little bit of tax money at the expense of future generations, as they are wont to do.
Poor teachers… this is a parents job.
Whom are all working all the time.
As you are talking a lot about men, I would say we need to talk about toxic masculinity. Which means basically antisocial, competetive, emotion-suppressing, “talk about things instead of feelings” traits.
Which also is a huge thing capitalism feeds. Noone gets admired for having a healthy relationship with their parents or a few very good friends, but for damn shoes or minicomputers with glass, cameras and sensors everywhere, nobody knew they needed a few decades ago.
So capitalism with ads everywhere and consumerism instead of real values is a huge factor.
If you dont have your own TV, you have to share. No own books, you need to go to the library. No own car, you share it with others.
This is so “uncomfortable”, while it would make people meet lots of new friends. I always make nice accquaintances in the train.
Lucky you, to live where there is a passenger train.
Which also is a huge thing capitalism feeds
And you were off to such a good start, too. If only this didn’t predate capitalism by several thousand years :(
It turns out even in a perfectly egalitarian society people will still compete for mates, and where teaching malea how to compete for mates gets filtered through idiocy, you end up with toxic masculinity.
Hell, if you’re being totally reductionist (and if you get to be, everyone gets to be), then you’re likely to experience more support for toxic traits in both men and women in an egalitarian society, because social differentiation becomes even more important.
They are not being reductionist, not to the degree you are claiming. It’s true it’s more complicated than “capitalism bad!” but you are talking on the other extreme of the spectrum and you are also wrong. Capitalism absolutely encourages and instills messages of “having things and showing disposable income means you are higher class”.
Capitalism absolutely encourages and instills messages of “having things and showing disposable income means you are higher class”
This is not by any means unique to capitalism.
There will always be markers of social standing, even in a completely post-scarcity Trek-communist utopia.
Blaming an aspect of human nature on an economic system is silly.
Capitalism needs companies to grow. But there is no need for any products most produce. So they use ads and all other toxic methods, abusing the antisocial group dynamics etc. with being bullied for damn shoes… just to sell products.
Capitalism bad.
But there is no need for any products most produce
How do you expect anyone to take you seriously lol
Things I wish they’d teach kids:
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Yoga (one of my niece’s school teaches them basic yoga)
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breathing / meditation
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conflict resolution
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critical thinking skills / logic
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relationship skills eg knowing your self-worth, knowing how and when to say no, knowing about your own body and that it’s inviolable. If my youngest niece doesn’t want to give me a hug goodbye and her mum says “go on give your uncle a hug” I always make a point of saying it’s fine, she doesn’t have to hug anyone she doesn’t want to
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Relationships are discouraged through school, in favor of competition, so we can be more effectively exploited by the elites (and all hierarchical societies). That is by design. Healthy individuals with good relationships are harder to sell to and to exploit. It’s relatively hard to convince someone who is satisfied with their life and image to buy something. It’s a lot easier to convince them to instead seek emotional satisfaction through excessive buying (escapism). Each new item (or service) you get can temporarily fill the emotional void and provide a fleeting sense of excitement or comfort.
I think that you’re giving them way too much credit. I’d call it a favorable coincidence (for them) but not by design.
That tends to be how things develop when you’re talking about systems. There’s not a cackling Bad Guy engineering these things, but a system of socioeconomic carrots and sticks that, right now, favor exploitation. Schools and education happen within that incentive structure so its natural that they would take on it’s characteristics.
This isn’t just an issue in terms of romantic relationships, or gender-specific.
We used to all be exposed to the same media and had common points of reference and interest. It was called water cooler discussion. Unless you’re into sports, this doesn’t really exist any more.
We used to share a more common set of customs. Schools used to have etiquette/finishing classes. Was a lot of it ultimately arbitrary and made up? Of course, but we were all taught the same things, and they became a common language. You knew to take off your hat/glasses when talking to me to show a level of courtesy and respect, and I knew you were showing respect when you did that. This also worked in terms of things like knowing when to adopt a formal tone with others… many people don’t have a formal tone any more, let alone know how to use it.
Everyday life thrust us into more social interaction, too. You used to have to go to stores, talk to people. Even public transport and public spaces used to be a social experience before everyone buried themselves in their mobile phones and headphones. Now the majority of people left trying to interact with you in public are weirdos or trying to sell you something, so people assume anyone approaching you in public is a weirdo or trying to sell you something, suddenly it is taboo to even try to strike up a conversation with a stranger.
And modern outlets like social media encourage some of our worst tendencies. Everything escalates into outrage, tribal warfare, makes us really bad at self-moderation and letting things go.
The-way-things-were was never ideal for a minority of people, but the way things are is ideal for no one. I strongly believe even the innovations that are supposed to help a lot of minorities are hurting them to a degree, too. I fit into a couple of those minority categories myself, and have to force myself to go outside, to use manned checkouts, to put away my phone when outside, as while the alternatives may be easier in the short-term, in the long-term they are making me both physically and mentally less-resiliant.
Yeah, go out and meet random people. Trains are great, as everyone it out of their comfort zone and bored.
Apart from that its pretty hard, because literally staying at home on a single spot, looking in a single direction, seems so fulfilling. Its pretty crazy actually, in the 70s or so nobody would have just sat there and done nothing, even with TVs that was harder and more social.
I think these comments do make good points, but I think you’re romanticizing the past a bit. Just because people didn’t have computers/cell phones I can assure you plenty of people in the 70s were “doing nothing” in similar ways.
Can we just restate this as: “A lot of society’s problems could be avoided if parents actually put in effort to parent their children” ?
No amount of reasonable legislation can force parents to teach this stuff. Doing it through schools is infinitely easier.
It also helps provide a social standard that anyone can relate to. Seems weird to demand that parents should be the ones solely responsible to make sure their children are able to socialize properly. That just means they’re main reference for socializing is just their parents.
Not everything has to be legislation
Considering the sheer amount of time people spend in schools during essentially all of their formative years, it’d be a terrible idea not to implement legislation that could prevent maladaptive behaviors in our populace. Schools are already affected by legislation via the Mindless Drone Initiative established by our industrial forefathers. We might as well update things to make it a Healthy Human Endeavor instead. Finger-wagging at imaginary parents is going to do fuck all by comparison.
What alternative do you suggest that will be effective enough to not alienate children with parents who refuse to listen or think rationally?
Bad parents exist. Should their kids just be doomed then?
No, their kids should not be doomed. However they are unless those bad parents get better.
The part about gen Z men has been true for every generation’s men.
Not true. Its never been as bad as 63% not in relationships and 15% having no close friendships. Its clearly an issue that has gotten worse evertime. Why do you think this period of time is known as the loneliness epidemic.
You’re getting downvoted because you’re calling out half of Lemmy’s community with that comment. I agree 100%
A vast majority of the non-Western world doesn’t see juvenile relationships as conventional or even a good thing. In fact, youngsters fooling around with the opposite sex without parental consent is straight-up delinquent behaviour in almost the entirety of the Middle-East and Asia. What you call “bad” is rather ideal for the better half of the world.
The middle east isn’t exactly a shining example of healthy gender relations
And Europe and USA are? With over 45% divorce rates?
Not defending ME gender cultures in any way, I know they are fucked. But putting the western ultra-individualist dating convention as the standard is a hieght of ignorance. Almost all Asian cultures have existed without delinquent dating being the norm for centuries, and in no way are they any lesser than Western cultures.
Teens dating are the norm in most Asian countries what are you on about?
You mean in the middle east where women are basically seen as property in most of those countries. Literally not able to leave the house without a chaperone. Or you mean Asian countries like South Korea which is facing the same issues to such an extent that incel like public policies are bring implemented or Japan which again is facing literally the exact same problems.
